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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - What is your honest opinion on the Forza Franchise? Compeditor to GT?

naznatips on 15 June 2011
Carl2291 said:
naznatips said:

Your data is pretty skewed. First of all, scrap anything before this generation. The PS3 and the PS2 might as well not even be related, cause that audience clearly didn't transition well. In the interest of fairness that also means you can drop the first Forza, which gives us just Prologue PSP, and 5, which paints a much more even picture. Consider again that two of those GT games were not full price ($30 and $40 and the $30 one actually sold most of its copies at $20 or less), and that Forza has yet another release this year and it should easily pass it in franchise success for the generation. 


If we're doing that, then I think it's only fair to consider that GT5 Prologue is... Well... Pretty much a demo, and GT PSP was released on a dying platform, absolutely owned by piracy. Add in the fact that a huge chunk of GT4's sales came actually during this generation, but I'll let you off with that last one

Even then... GT5P, GTPSP and GT5 all combined are still at 13.8 Million, should be pushing close to 15 Million by the end of the Year, maybe more, if we have GT5 undertracked here (As it looks).

Forza 2 and Forza 3 are sitting at 8.84 Million currently. Hard to say where it will be by Years end, as we don't know what bundles they will be giving out, if they do infact bundle the game. I think it's fair to say that the Forza franchise though will be somewhere around 11/12 Million by the end of the Year. And that's being generous really, as it took F3 a full year to hit 3 Million (With a launch and ODST bundle), I'm giving F4 3 Months to do it! (Forza 3 did 2 Million in 3 Months) It will still be far behind GT for the gen, and it'll be hard to catch up...

I think GT will end up with higher sales for the gen, despite only actually releasing one full game on a home console. And if GT6 is a PS3 game, Forza has no chance.


I agree if and only if GT6 ends up on PS3, but considering the GT development cycle has been increasing exponentially between releases, we can expect GT6 sometime 2026. 



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ethomaz on 15 June 2011
naznatips said:
Sales-wise? Sure, it competes. I'd argue it's even potentially MORE successful given how well it sells and how efficiently and quickly the games are developed. GT5 was a ridiculous waste of 6 years, not that the final product wasn't great.

As far as the games themselves, professional racing sim analysts have broken it down and it's clear that Forza doesn't really drive like a sim. It helps you out in a lot of ways automatically which the real cars would not, and thus is more fun for people who want something more arcady, while GT5 has those options all assists can be turned off and it becomes a real sim, with the most accurate physics in the genre. My one big complaint with GT5 (and it's pretty big) is I perfer to play in a realistic cockpit view, and it only has that view for 200 cars (most of which I don't care about).

Before says bullshit read here: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4104999

GT5 not wasted 6 years to be made... PD make more than Turn 10 in the same time period.

Edit - I read your others  comments... even more bullshit... oh god.

Face it... there are no GT6 for this generation... GT5 is all you have and it will sell more than all Forza for X360 combined.



Griffin on 15 June 2011
naznatips said:
Carl2291 said:
naznatips said:
Sales-wise? Sure, it competes. I'd argue it's even potentially MORE successful given how well it sells and how efficiently and quickly the games are developed. GT5 was a ridiculous waste of 6 years, not that the final product wasn't great.


While I know what you're getting at with that comment, I think you should to take the following into consideration -

Gran Turismo 4 - 2004/2005 - 11 Million Seller
Tourist Trophy - 2006 - We only have Japan sales here at over 100k, but the game went Platinum so it's safe to say the game sold over 500k WW.
GT HD - 2006 - No data
Gran Turismo 5: Prologue - 2007/2008 - 5.2 Million units (Inc Downloads)
Gran Turismo PSP - 2009 - 2.3 Million (Inc Downloads)
Gran Turismo 5 - 2010 - 6.3 Million sold in 7/8 Months (Had shipped 6.3 in 2 Months)

6 "Titles" released between 2004 and 2010, without Tourist Trophy and GT HD included here, we reach almost 25 Million units of SW (Inc DL)

And then we have Forza...

Forza Motorsport - 2005 - 1.07 Million
Forza Motorsport 2 - 2007 - 4.01 Million
Forza Motorsport 3 - 2009 - 4.83 Million

3 titles released since 2005, not yet reached 10 Million units.

Make of this what you will.


Your data is pretty skewed. First of all, scrap anything before this generation. The PS3 and the PS2 might as well not even be related, cause that audience clearly didn't transition well. In the interest of fairness that also means you can drop the first Forza, which gives us just Prologue PSP, and 5, which paints a much more even picture. Consider again that two of those GT games were not full price ($30 and $40 and the $30 one actually sold most of its copies at $20 or less), and that Forza has yet another release this year and it should easily pass it in franchise success for the generation. 

If you plan to bring in the price of the games to see if it was a succes then went not bring up the fact that atleast 50% of Forza sales were due to bundles?  Forza 3 has been bundled atleast 3 seperate times.  Forza2 was also a main holiday bundle for around 6months on the market, they also had other bundles.  Forza games also drop pretty fast in price at retail.



naznatips on 15 June 2011
ethomaz said:
naznatips said:
Sales-wise? Sure, it competes. I'd argue it's even potentially MORE successful given how well it sells and how efficiently and quickly the games are developed. GT5 was a ridiculous waste of 6 years, not that the final product wasn't great.

As far as the games themselves, professional racing sim analysts have broken it down and it's clear that Forza doesn't really drive like a sim. It helps you out in a lot of ways automatically which the real cars would not, and thus is more fun for people who want something more arcady, while GT5 has those options all assists can be turned off and it becomes a real sim, with the most accurate physics in the genre. My one big complaint with GT5 (and it's pretty big) is I perfer to play in a realistic cockpit view, and it only has that view for 200 cars (most of which I don't care about).

Before says bullshit read here: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4104999

GT5 not wasted 6 years to be made... PD make more than Turn 10 in the same time period.

Edit - I read your others  comments... even more bullshit... oh god.


Really dude? Really? You're going to argue that Prologue and HD are full game projects, equal to entire Forza games? A not-even-demo and a pretty large demo? Come on, I made it clear from my post I prefer GT as a game, but what you're doing is ridiculous. Stack the deck much? Again, I'm purely talking about the potential success of the franchises this generation, not a silly staff war. It is ridiculous for Poliphony to spend 6 years on GT5, and yes, it made a better game, I much prefer it to Forza 3 (at least after patches). I'm simply talking about potential for the two franchises in total sales in the generation. Chill out. 



ethomaz on 15 June 2011
naznatips said:
ethomaz said:
naznatips said:
Sales-wise? Sure, it competes. I'd argue it's even potentially MORE successful given how well it sells and how efficiently and quickly the games are developed. GT5 was a ridiculous waste of 6 years, not that the final product wasn't great.

As far as the games themselves, professional racing sim analysts have broken it down and it's clear that Forza doesn't really drive like a sim. It helps you out in a lot of ways automatically which the real cars would not, and thus is more fun for people who want something more arcady, while GT5 has those options all assists can be turned off and it becomes a real sim, with the most accurate physics in the genre. My one big complaint with GT5 (and it's pretty big) is I perfer to play in a realistic cockpit view, and it only has that view for 200 cars (most of which I don't care about).

Before says bullshit read here: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4104999

GT5 not wasted 6 years to be made... PD make more than Turn 10 in the same time period.

Edit - I read your others  comments... even more bullshit... oh god.


Really dude? Really? You're going to argue that Prologue and HD are full game projects, equal to entire Forza games? A not-even-demo and a pretty large demo? Come on, I made it clear from my post I prefer GT as a game, but what you're doing is ridiculous. Stack the deck much? Again, I'm purely talking about the potential success of the franchises this generation, not a silly staff war. It is ridiculous for Poliphony to spend 6 years on GT5, and yes, it made a better game, I much prefer it to Forza 4. I'm simply talking about potential for the two franchises in total sales in the generation. Chill out.

C'mon guy... you are getting ridiculous... PD not spended 6 years in GT5... they worked in other titles.

And you read I saying GT5 will sell more than Forza 2 + Forza 3 + Forza 4.



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Carl on 15 June 2011
ethomaz said:

Before says bullshit read here: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4104999

GT5 not wasted 6 years to be made... PD make more than Turn 10 in the same time period.

Edit - I read your others  comments... even more bullshit... oh god.

Face it... there are no GT6 for this generation... GT5 is all you have and it will sell more than all Forza for X360 combined.

Firstly, you should chill. naz is a good guy, knows what he's talking about.

Secondly, GT5 isn't doing 13 Million plus, which is where the 3 Forza games will end up.



                            

naznatips on 15 June 2011
Carl2291 said:
ethomaz said:

Before says bullshit read here: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4104999

GT5 not wasted 6 years to be made... PD make more than Turn 10 in the same time period.

Edit - I read your others  comments... even more bullshit... oh god.

Face it... there are no GT6 for this generation... GT5 is all you have and it will sell more than all Forza for X360 combined.

Firstly, you should chill. naz is a good guy, knows what he's talking about.

Secondly, GT5 isn't doing 13 Million plus, which is where the 3 Forza games will end up.


Thanks Carl. Jeeze I swear anytime I bring up something selling better than something else I'm totally attacking the other game with some venomous hatred. I really like GT5, I've played it tons in local multiplayer, and have been looking for a reasonably priced copy to buy myself for more than a month. I am not a fan of Forza as a franchise, I just think as a sales entity it's competitive, which was the original topic. 



ethomaz on 15 June 2011
Carl2291 said:
ethomaz said:

Before says bullshit read here: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4104999

GT5 not wasted 6 years to be made... PD make more than Turn 10 in the same time period.

Edit - I read your others  comments... even more bullshit... oh god.

Face it... there are no GT6 for this generation... GT5 is all you have and it will sell more than all Forza for X360 combined.

Firstly, you should chill. naz is a good guy, knows what he's talking about.

Secondly, GT5 isn't doing 13 Million plus, which is where the 3 Forza games will end up.

I'm not saying it a bad guy... I just saying it says bullshit because PD not spended 6 years in GT5... the time to developer GT5 after GT5:P was 3 years at maximum... an staff of 110 guys working in GT5 and GT PSP togheter in 2-3 year is something impressive.

And if next Xbox released in 2013 Forza 4 won't sell 4 million... 3 million is possible but not probable... GT5 will end up a little over 11 million tracking ahead GT4 like it is now.



yo_john117 on 15 June 2011
goforgold said:
Forza is as much a competitor to GT as Battlefield is to ARMA

What the heck is ARMA?



yo_john117 on 15 June 2011
trasharmdsister12 said:
yo_john117 said:
goforgold said:
Forza is as much a competitor to GT as Battlefield is to ARMA

What the heck is ARMA?

It's a war simulator game built by the US Military, otherwise known as America's Army. So he's pretty much taking a jab at Forza saying it's as much sim as BF is to ARMA.

Oh...posh.