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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nikkei Article on Cafe confirms control

oniyide on 05 June 2011
JEMC said:
Phoeniks.Wright said:
JEMC said:
Phoeniks.Wright said:
Mr Khan said:
Phoeniks.Wright said:
Well damn. This sounds crap. Since Nikkei "confirmed" this rumour, I'm going to cautiously assume that picture of the controller was and is going to be rather accurate, the one which looks like a 360 controller with a screen in the middle.
E3 never looked so dire. Especially for Nintendo.

I would find it hard to believe that they would abandon motion controls so handily, so i doubt we'll get exactly what we've seen. It has to be some kind of hybrid

Oh no, I find it incredibely easy to believe that they will abandon motion controls so easily. Just look at the games that they've released so far: how many actually use motion controls in a meaningfull way and not as a gimmick? I count 3 ( wii sports and sports resort, wii play as well ) good games, 1 okay-ish ( wii party ), and 1 terrible ( wii music ). Maybe I could add mario kart here, since it's used as a control method properly as well. That makes 6, of which 5 were released by 2008, 3 years ago.

I can only conclude that they could not give less of a damn about motion controls.

Of course, I'm not talking about something like a sixaxis controller, but that would be one hell of a downgrade.

Metroid Prime 3 used motion controls and the next Zelda also uses them. In fact you need wm+ to play it. Why would Nintendo use on it with Zelda and then thow it away on their next system?

Oh, and if you add 3rd party games there are some good examples on how to use motion controls, Zack & Wiki being one of them.

Edit.: Damm! The Quote thingy didn't work properly on IE9... a bug?

Metroid prime 3 used motion controls very lightly, and for things which could have been easily replaced with buttons, not that it wasn't enjoyable. As for zelda, they only decided to use WM+ after people screamed in their ears that it would be a good idea. And besides, you don't really need motion for what it's worth in Skyward sword, since looking at the GDC trailer, it's mostly used for puzzles and incredibly rudimentary combat.

And unfortunately, even with 3rd parties, good motion games are few and far between.

Which just shows that for 3rd parties and Nintendo, completely ditching good motion controls doesn't seem to be a big deal at all, since it only represented a very small portion of their portfollio of games.

What Nintendo did with wm+ and Zelda was what in Spain we call "lanzar un globo sonda" and it's something politicians use to do (and please forgive me for this comparison): when they have an idea but don't know how well received it will be among yhe people, they just say that they are studying it and way for reactions. Nintendo announced that they were studying the use of wm+ and people claimed how good it'd be, reinforcing their original plan (if people's reaction were against it they could go back to simple wiimote).

As for the lack of good 3rd party games with motion controls it's only the result of the lack of support from them. No games in general means no games with motion controls in particular, and even less with a good implementation of them.

In the end, Nintendo has said that they want to improve and expand the way we play games, and you don't do that introducing motion controls with one console just to take them away with the next one. Also they have launched the 3DS with motion controls, why would they ditch them in Cafe?

The problem with your theory is that Motion  + has been out for a while and the new Zelda is still a ways away, why the hell havent they been supporting it all this time??? Wasnt the test Wii Sports Resort?? Where was the followup?? Flingsmash???? Even the damn Move gets more support and that thing doesnt have near the install base of Motion+. So yeah I would be surprised if they did ditch it



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oniyide on 05 June 2011

@NJ5 not saying your wrong but how much genres besides FPS can really benefit from IR pointing??? I get the motion part but i think people just make the IR pointing more important than it really is



loy310 on 05 June 2011

Nintendo have been very successful in the hand held market, so it makes sense for them to go all out on making there gaming devices as portable as the DS or 3DS.

The only issue is how will they differentiate to consumers that Cafe is different from the cheaper 3DS, or NGP. It's a cool idea but might be hard to implement.



NJ5 on 05 June 2011
oniyide said:
@NJ5 not saying your wrong but how much genres besides FPS can really benefit from IR pointing??? I get the motion part but i think people just make the IR pointing more important than it really is

RTS, adventure, on-rail shooters or any game which has inventories or any other menu with lots of choices, for example. Also almost every first-person game, not just FPS.

Look at any PC game and see how the mouse is used. IR pointing can do basically the same. Dual analogs are clunky for any situation where lots of choices are present.



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adsl on 05 June 2011
NJ5 said:
oniyide said:
@NJ5 not saying your wrong but how much genres besides FPS can really benefit from IR pointing??? I get the motion part but i think people just make the IR pointing more important than it really is

RTS, adventure, on-rail shooters or any game which has inventories or any other menu with lots of choices, for example. Also almost every first-person game, not just FPS.

Look at any PC game and see how the mouse is used. IR pointing can do basically the same. Dual analogs are clunky for any situation where lots of choices are present.


NJ5, I have to agree with you, after Call of Dutty 3 and Metroid Prime 3 I can't play shooters using the the dual analogs, even when I was playing the Wind Waker I had problems to use some items because in Twilight Princess IR was used to aim but in Wind Waker I had to use the analog. Moreover after Red Steel 2 I refuse to play any new Zelda game (for an home console) where I will need to press a button to use Link's Sword. These are two of the reasons that make me see the rumored new controller as a steep back.



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TomaTito on 05 June 2011

I was expecting more PC games to jump over to the Wii, specially in the WiiWare department, since it replicates the WASD+mouse perfectly. Games like Abuse action side scroller (shadow complex would play great with the remote), top down shooters like Alien Swarm, puzzles (loads on PC, WW is also full of these), strategy games :(



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JEMC on 05 June 2011
oniyide said:
JEMC said:
Phoeniks.Wright said:
JEMC said:
Phoeniks.Wright said:
Mr Khan said:
Phoeniks.Wright said:
Well damn. This sounds crap. Since Nikkei "confirmed" this rumour, I'm going to cautiously assume that picture of the controller was and is going to be rather accurate, the one which looks like a 360 controller with a screen in the middle.
E3 never looked so dire. Especially for Nintendo.

I would find it hard to believe that they would abandon motion controls so handily, so i doubt we'll get exactly what we've seen. It has to be some kind of hybrid

Oh no, I find it incredibely easy to believe that they will abandon motion controls so easily. Just look at the games that they've released so far: how many actually use motion controls in a meaningfull way and not as a gimmick? I count 3 ( wii sports and sports resort, wii play as well ) good games, 1 okay-ish ( wii party ), and 1 terrible ( wii music ). Maybe I could add mario kart here, since it's used as a control method properly as well. That makes 6, of which 5 were released by 2008, 3 years ago.

I can only conclude that they could not give less of a damn about motion controls.

Of course, I'm not talking about something like a sixaxis controller, but that would be one hell of a downgrade.

Metroid Prime 3 used motion controls and the next Zelda also uses them. In fact you need wm+ to play it. Why would Nintendo use on it with Zelda and then thow it away on their next system?

Oh, and if you add 3rd party games there are some good examples on how to use motion controls, Zack & Wiki being one of them.

Edit.: Damm! The Quote thingy didn't work properly on IE9... a bug?

Metroid prime 3 used motion controls very lightly, and for things which could have been easily replaced with buttons, not that it wasn't enjoyable. As for zelda, they only decided to use WM+ after people screamed in their ears that it would be a good idea. And besides, you don't really need motion for what it's worth in Skyward sword, since looking at the GDC trailer, it's mostly used for puzzles and incredibly rudimentary combat.

And unfortunately, even with 3rd parties, good motion games are few and far between.

Which just shows that for 3rd parties and Nintendo, completely ditching good motion controls doesn't seem to be a big deal at all, since it only represented a very small portion of their portfollio of games.

What Nintendo did with wm+ and Zelda was what in Spain we call "lanzar un globo sonda" and it's something politicians use to do (and please forgive me for this comparison): when they have an idea but don't know how well received it will be among yhe people, they just say that they are studying it and way for reactions. Nintendo announced that they were studying the use of wm+ and people claimed how good it'd be, reinforcing their original plan (if people's reaction were against it they could go back to simple wiimote).

As for the lack of good 3rd party games with motion controls it's only the result of the lack of support from them. No games in general means no games with motion controls in particular, and even less with a good implementation of them.

In the end, Nintendo has said that they want to improve and expand the way we play games, and you don't do that introducing motion controls with one console just to take them away with the next one. Also they have launched the 3DS with motion controls, why would they ditch them in Cafe?

The problem with your theory is that Motion  + has been out for a while and the new Zelda is still a ways away, why the hell havent they been supporting it all this time??? Wasnt the test Wii Sports Resort?? Where was the followup?? Flingsmash???? Even the damn Move gets more support and that thing doesnt have near the install base of Motion+. So yeah I would be surprised if they did ditch it

Because not every game requires wm+. What do you want them to do? Force us to buy it? Make it necessary to play DKCR? That's not how they work.

Wii Sports Resort didin't had a follow up for the same reason Wii Sports didn't had one. Those were demos to show people how the wiimote works and how wm+ can improve it. That was their function and they did it quite well.

I'm not even going to comment what you said about Move.



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oniyide on 06 June 2011
NJ5 said:
oniyide said:
@NJ5 not saying your wrong but how much genres besides FPS can really benefit from IR pointing??? I get the motion part but i think people just make the IR pointing more important than it really is

RTS, adventure, on-rail shooters or any game which has inventories or any other menu with lots of choices, for example. Also almost every first-person game, not just FPS.

Look at any PC game and see how the mouse is used. IR pointing can do basically the same. Dual analogs are clunky for any situation where lots of choices are present.


I would argue that those game, besides maybe on rail shooters, have not and are not popular on consoles anyway. Hell despite having IR pointer for years how much games RTS have been released for WII?? Christ the PS3 has more Adventure games than Wii and it just got its motion control and most of them dont use it. THe devs dont really care to put those games on consoles IR pointer or not



oniyide on 06 June 2011

@JEMC your first point makes no sense, they could do what the other company does and make the games compatible with Motion plus. HR, MAG, KZ3, TC RS, Virtua Tennis, etc. those are all games that you dont have to use to Move, Why cant it be the same for Motion+. Hell Tiger Woods and Conduit 2 dont require Motion Plus but it supports it
Your 2nd point, so what?? They showed it work so where the hell were the games?? Im not suggesting make another Wii SPorts but do something. Flingsmash??? WTH was that. and now we are getting another Wii Play game that it itself is just a demo. Why??? Motion plus has been out forever, why is it getting no support. As for Move, no need to comment what i stated was fact, their are more Move compatible games than Motion +



Ssenkahdavic on 06 June 2011

This should be really interesting.



 

  

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