@all,

From people reactions, I think there is something weird about project cafe power. I hear people saying wait and see or we know nothing, or even it is more powerfull (from what we know).

The question is not about more powerfull, it is about significatively morre powerfull or not !

because if the difference is like PS3 and 360, or, let's say, a bit bigger, then it is not going to change the gaming world and I doubt developpers will spend many money on a new console to developpe specifically for it. We may see some "upgraded" port but it is hard to know if it will be sufficient to make people switch to the project cafe ...

It tends to be that Nintendo's new hardware is dictated by what new things they can do with cheap, available technology. I wouldn't be surprised if the new system is a small chunk more powerful than the current HD machines, but I believe that processing power will be pushed into streaming games to this new controller--Nintendo have said they consider all forms of entertainment as competition to videogames, and the big disadvantage home consoles have right now is that if they are attached to the living room television, they have to compete with all the other functions the television is used for. 

If you can seamlessly stream the home console content to the controller (having the console do all of the hard work, the controller is just a display/interface unit), then the console becomes a gaming and entertainment hub that can be used regardless of what is on the tv. This fits in with Nintendo's family friendly approach--the husband can play Zelda as the wife watches a soap, the kids can play Mario Kart on their controllers as the parents watch a film, and users can switch back to using the tv as a display when no-one else is using the television. And that sets aside the possible uses of this controller in tandem with a television to replicate the advantages of the DS display. It might not sound like a particularly amazing or desirable innovation to the current market, but did Wii or DS sound like innovations we needed? Does 3DS streetpass and spotpass seem like innovations we need? I don't think they do, but in the long run I think they will prove to be the genuinely compelling features of Nintendo's systems. 

As for Microsoft and Sony--I agree with the assertion that a new hardware generation within the next few years is undesirable to both companies. Sony in particular have invested massive amounts in the PS3, and though I always viewed their "ten year plan" as a PR gimmick, the simple fact is the PS3 took far longer to get going than Sony would have liked, and they had to cut price (delaying profitability) earlier than they would have liked. As for Microsoft, their investment in Kinect, as well as the RRD fiasco has made this generation far more costly than they would have liked. They might be able to find the raw funds for a new machine that will launch in 2013, but how desirable is this when they are squeezed on both sides by Apple and Google? The question isn't whether or not these companies can afford new machines, but whether or not they can justify those costs? 

I don't think they can. I agree that the new MS/Sony machines will be more incremental upgrades in terms of processing power, and by extension, development costs. But that isn't a bad thing--hopefully it will encourage the kind of out of the box thinking that has resulted in the Wii, DS and Kinect. Hopefully this will encourage not just control innovations, but OS innovations in games consoles, online services innovations, new ways of delivering content and new hierarchies of content. The danger (as Wii's software market has displayed) is that these low development costs will encourage shovelware, mountains of which can wreck the market for third party software. But that's a risk I think we'll have to take, and we'll have to trust to the quality of developers to deliver new, compelling experiences that justify the continuing existence of 'traditional' games devices. I think that was the misunderstood message of Iwata's keynote at GDC this year--we shouldn't fear new ways of playing games, or new business models, but we need to accomodate these new models while also seeking to remind the wider market why evolving our old way of doing things, of having a games dedicated box with secondary functions, of buying £40 blockbuster titles from retail, is still a valid and compelling way of developing and playing games. 

In truth, the biggest factor in how this new machine will affect Sony and Microsoft is likely to be the attractiveness of the USP. The probable easy porting of content will level the software playing field as far as multi-platform titles go, but for exclusive content, would certainly give Nintendo the advantage in that area.

Touch-screen control is interesting, as we have seen with Sony's NGP demo's, and it is proven as a popular control mechanism, not least with Nintendo's own DS, but is that a game changer on it's own?

If the USP is streaming content to the handsets, what kind of content and how will it be implimented? For instance, games are an obvious starting point and naturally the focus in discussions, but presumably internet access will be streamed to the handsets too, what about media players for online music and T.V. or even films? Why not, these are standard console functions nowadays, so if streaming is the "big thing" then the Cafe will likely stream all these functions too.

This could be a massive selling point, above and beyond the abilities of the other two consoles. In addition, making the cost of each additional handset much less of a barrier to sales. If you could get all that functionality for another family member anywhere in the house, what would you pay for another handset?

All pie in the sky at the moment, but I wouldn't bet against Nintendo changing the game again.

While it is an impressive image in 1080p @ 60fps, I still think that it is likely that Nintendo will probably not be too worried about games being output beyond 720p @ 30fps. The reason for this is that the majority of people (probably) do not see a significant advantage of 1080p over 720p (or 60fps over 30fps) and it requires a much more expensive GPU to output similar graphics at 1080p @ 60fps than 720p @ 30fps, and it is unlikely that Sony and Microsoft would be able to produce a system that creates noticeably better graphics at 720p or 1080p without being released far later at a much higher price,

The reason I make this claim is not because this hardware is so amazing that it couldn't be surpassed, it is simply that (as I said before) we're hitting the limit of the raster-scanline algorithm at 720p; effectively, we will be unable to display more geometry or textures which meaningfully add to the image quality, and shaders will be unable to produce better lighting without moving to global illumination. Potentially, Sony and Microsoft could aim for a similar position in 1080p @ 60fps (resulting in a moderate perceived improvement) but that would require 4 to 8 times the processing power; or they could move towards a global illumination system in 720p @ 30fps which would also require 8 times the processing power or more.

Not till after they diss it for about 3 years by calling it a fad, gimmick, etc..   Props to Sega first though for the VMU.  Screen on controller seems perfect sense for Nintendo since they love the DS.  Having a item/menu screen without pausing (for games such as Zelda), selecting sports plays, etc..  I can think of benefits that almost any game genre could use with the setup. 

I am mainly worried about price of the controller if they implement a screen into it.  Controller prices need to be curbed at some point soon.  To pay more for 4 controllers than the actual system just seems off to me. 

Nintendo always provides great games that you can't have on other consoles.

I think the problem for Nintendo is going to be that A LOT of people are going to be on this boat.  While it is true that the most powerful console has not always won each gaming gen, the graphics were always comparable.  This gen changed that (not for forever), but let's face it, it was because of motion controls.  It wasn't Nintendo's franchises or Wii exclusives, it was because Nintendo introduced something unique for gameplay interface that attracted many casual gamers.

Next gen, Nintendo won't have this.  Sony and MS will have a new version of their own motion controllers.  I also don't see a touch screen in every controller having the same affect as motion controls.  We have so many devices that use touchscreens, it's insane.  Not only that, but it will increase the price of individual controllers to around ~$80-$100.  Many people aren't going to want to shell out for multiple controllers.

As far as graphics go, if Cafe is only going to be getting ports, albiet slightly improved, what would be the point?  Keep in mind that the Cafe doesn't release for another year.  While I see MS and Sony only cutting the price of the 360 and PS3 by $50 this year, I could definitely see them cutting by another $50, to $199, not too long after the launch of the Cafe.  I mean it will be another whole year to get production costs down to where they could still be profitable at $199.  So for the average shopper, are they going to pay ~$150-$200 more for a console that will have slightly better looking games, just because it has a touchscreen in the controller?  I doubt it.  Not when one year later the PS4/720 will be out for probably ~$400, and offer greatly improved graphics over this gen.

Will consumers pick a slightly more powerful Cafe for $300 almost without games or will they choose PS3 and 360 for $250 that have strong online features and hundreds of new and classic games to choose from?

It really depends ... If the only advantage of the Cafe is more processing power probably not, but if there are other improvements it is highly likely that they would. And this is the reason why I believe it is foolish to focus too heavily on processing power as a selling point.

We know too little about what Nintendo is doing to really know how effective they will be. Potentially, Nintendo's focus over the past 5 years could have been to create disruptive services rather than disruptive hardware. While people often don't see the flaws in XBox Live or the Playstation Network, services like single-disc online multiplayer (effectively allowing you to invite friends to play a game only you have bought) or seemless integration with facebook or youtube could have a significant impact on how people see and play videogames.

Hypothetically speaking, if Nintendo created an integrated social gaming platform and they hit a certain sales threshold (even if Sony and Microsoft copy or extend all of the features) Nintendo could become the default choice because everyone's friends already own the Nintendo system; and the value is in connecting with friends not in the hardware.

Given that the Cafe may be $350-$400 (I'd go with $350), and the PS3 and 360 MAY be $199 around that time, that decision is going to be much easier holiday season of next year.