By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sales Discussion - Writing off the 360

leo-j said:
Guys 3rd parties dont make much money of the wii.. only nintendo does, and ninty doesnt seem to care with there online either.

Evidence, please? Lots of 3rd parties are flocking to the system, which would imply that they firmly expect to make money off the console. They may not outsell many NIntendo games, but as I said earlier, one does not need to be a top 10 game to turn a profit (especially when you consider how little was seemingly invested in early Wii games).



Around the Network
rocketpig said:
Dryden said:

Personally, I wonder where is MS's Mario, Sonic, Crash Bandicoot, or Ratchet & Clank? Where is the good old fashioned platformer?


I couldn't agree more. MS has Rare in their stable. Why the **** are they wasting their time with Perfect Dark games and the like? MS already has Halo, that's all the shooters they need in their first party catalog. Third parties more than make up for the rest and MS' publishing and exclusive system should work well in the shooter world. Shooters are almost always on PC; MS has excellent tools to convert PC games to 360. It's a no-brainer that those shooters will come to the 360 anyway (while not necessarily to the PS3) because they're easy to port and they sell.

Take advantage of Rare, MS. We need more Viva Pinatas, Banjos, Kameos, and Conkers. Unfortunately, two of those IP are new and MS has yet to take advantage of one of Rare's classic franchises outside of the Conker remake.

Who cares if they sell well right off the bat? You'll never get diversity if you don't try to use your talent in the best way possible (and Rare's best talent is obviously no longer in FPS games; PDZ was shit while Viva Pinata was an extremely solid and underrated game).

On the other hand, I do have to give MS kudos for their acquisition of Sakaguchi for the JRPG world. While it might not turn the tide immediately, over the long run it has to help. If you keep producing good games in a genre, sooner or later fans of that genre will be forced to pay attention and buy your system. 


 

Perfect Dark is one of Rare's big IPs (hey! why's my text so big?). It helped fill the need of a known FPS in the launch window, as Halo 3 (and new IP GoW) was over a year away.

Conker (ah! that's better) was a huge disappointment on the N64 (in terms of sales, not quality), and the remake didn't fare well either.

Banjo Kazooie was a hit on the N64, but not a blockbuster, selling less than did Perfect Dark, and I don't believe that Banjo-Tooie even managed to break 1m. There is no real reason to believe BK (whom I love dearly) are adequate mascots to build a console around.

What's left? Blast Corps? Jet Force Gemini? They have even less pull than Conker. Killer Instict? It's been over a decade since the last installment, and a lot of air has done out of the fighting genre since then.

Really when you look at Rare's history, they've always done best (in terms of sales) with other companies' licenses: Goldeneye, Donkey Kong Country, Diddy Kong Racing. They've not had a real hit since Perfect Dark, and even their once spot on quality has proven inconsistent.  It seems to me that more gamers are interested in seeing classic rare games on the VC than they are in any new titles under development. If Banjo Kazooie 3 fails to take off, I wouldn't be suprised to see the the whole company disappear.

 Honestly I'm not sure mascots really matter so much anymore. Crash never really took off as hoped, Sonic couldn't save Sega, and I'm not sure anyone thinks of Jak & Dexter or Ratcher & Clank as the face of the Playstation, the way we do Mario and Nintendo, Sonic and Sega, or Master Chief and Microsoft.



madskillz said:
 


I don't know where you live, but as stated earlier, the 360 suffered a 6-month drought in the U.S. - it would sell out as soon as it was put on the shelf. I know several places where you couldn't find a 360 until May-June. The PS3 only had a 2-week drought and they were spotted on shelves. So, if you have systems on the shelves two weeks after release - and no 360s on shelves for 6 months, do you understand what that means? You couldn't buy a 360! And if you can't buy one, guess what ... you can't sell it either! The PS3 sales are reflective of one thing - it has readily been available since launch.
 

 The fact that Microsoft didn't make sure prior to launch that they would have enough units available is their fault and their fault alone.

 

The PS3 wasn't available in Europe until four months after launch, but again, that's Sony's own fault.



 

Consoles owned: Saturn, Dreamcast, PS1, PS2, PSP, DS, PS3

misterd said:
rocketpig said:
Dryden said:

Personally, I wonder where is MS's Mario, Sonic, Crash Bandicoot, or Ratchet & Clank? Where is the good old fashioned platformer?


I couldn't agree more. MS has Rare in their stable. Why the **** are they wasting their time with Perfect Dark games and the like? MS already has Halo, that's all the shooters they need in their first party catalog. Third parties more than make up for the rest and MS' publishing and exclusive system should work well in the shooter world. Shooters are almost always on PC; MS has excellent tools to convert PC games to 360. It's a no-brainer that those shooters will come to the 360 anyway (while not necessarily to the PS3) because they're easy to port and they sell.

Take advantage of Rare, MS. We need more Viva Pinatas, Banjos, Kameos, and Conkers. Unfortunately, two of those IP are new and MS has yet to take advantage of one of Rare's classic franchises outside of the Conker remake.

Who cares if they sell well right off the bat? You'll never get diversity if you don't try to use your talent in the best way possible (and Rare's best talent is obviously no longer in FPS games; PDZ was shit while Viva Pinata was an extremely solid and underrated game).

On the other hand, I do have to give MS kudos for their acquisition of Sakaguchi for the JRPG world. While it might not turn the tide immediately, over the long run it has to help. If you keep producing good games in a genre, sooner or later fans of that genre will be forced to pay attention and buy your system. 


 

Perfect Dark is one of Rare's big IPs (hey! why's my text so big?). It helped fill the need of a known FPS in the launch window, as Halo 3 (and new IP GoW) was over a year away.

Conker (ah! that's better) was a huge disappointment on the N64 (in terms of sales, not quality), and the remake didn't fare well either.

Banjo Kazooie was a hit on the N64, but not a blockbuster, selling less than did Perfect Dark, and I don't believe that Banjo-Tooie even managed to break 1m. There is no real reason to believe BK (whom I love dearly) are adequate mascots to build a console around.

What's left? Blast Corps? Jet Force Gemini? They have even less pull than Conker. Killer Instict? It's been over a decade since the last installment, and a lot of air has done out of the fighting genre since then.

Really when you look at Rare's history, they've always done best (in terms of sales) with other companies' licenses: Goldeneye, Donkey Kong Country, Diddy Kong Racing. They've not had a real hit since Perfect Dark, and even their once spot on quality has proven inconsistent.  It seems to me that more gamers are interested in seeing classic rare games on the VC than they are in any new titles under development. If Banjo Kazooie 3 fails to take off, I wouldn't be suprised to see the the whole company disappear.

 Honestly I'm not sure mascots really matter so much anymore. Crash never really took off as hoped, Sonic couldn't save Sega, and I'm not sure anyone thinks of Jak & Dexter or Ratcher & Clank as the face of the Playstation, the way we do Mario and Nintendo, Sonic and Sega, or Master Chief and Microsoft.


If you re-read my post, I wasn't talking about mascots so much as a diversified game lineup. Rare can make a decent platformer, Kameo wasn't bad and had potential but there should have been a Banjo game in its place.

MS needs some mre platformers. 




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

madskillz said:
Even with the *success* on the PS3 in Europe, it's still going to take a ton of time to chip away at the 360's lead. And yeah, the Euro gamers have PS loyalty, but the real question is - are they buying the PS for the name only? And yes, it's whipping the 360 by a 100K some weeks in Others.

It's a long, long way for the PS3 to overtake the 360. The Wii is showing folks what it takes to dethrone the 360 - lower price point, innovative controls and just a fun experience. Sadly, neither the 360 or the pS3 have these.

The 360's lead over the PS3 may evaporate, but with surplus funds, you can bet MS will keep dropping the price of the 360 until Sony is bleeding like a person in open-heart surgery in need of a torniquet. It will end up being 'Who has the deepest pockets' and Sony will lose that fight.

 madskillz you're a true fanboy (just like me) :)

Why do you think MS and Sony will fight by pissing money away? They are in this business to MAKE money not to loose money. Also Sony has $11B in cash and MS has $23B in cash, none of them will run out of cash anytime soon. On top of that both companies are profitable. Yes, Sony is profitable, even with the huge losses from PS3.

Anyway if you really believe MS is in this fight to win at any cost... dream on man. We are the one's that want 360 or PS3 to win at any costs. MS and Sony just want to make their businesses profitable and make money. That is why they created the consoles in first place.

 But I'm happy to see that even you now say "360's lead over the PS3 may evaporate" even if you think that will force MS to drop prices "until Sony is bleeding". I think MS will rather drop the ball on the 360 than lose much more money on it. Making Sony bleed but bleeding too is not how MS makes money at all.

But I'm sure MS will drop prices, but so will Sony. The price drops will be modest and not radical like most people may think. I expect 360 to drop $50 on the low end and $100 on the high end. The same I expect from Sony.

So I can see an Arcade at $229 and an Elite at $349 but I also expect a 40Gb PS3 at $349 and a 80Gb at $399 about the same time and both cuts before next Thanksgiving. And at the same price the 40Gb PS3 is still the better value, smaller HD but has WiFi, bluetooth and Blu-ray.

 I suggest you buy a PS3 but I know you will not. I have a feeling you had an Xbox last gen and never bought a PS2 to enjoy all the freaking great games on it. Am I correct? What was the best PS2 game you ever played? Did you miss out on all those great games just to enjoy Halo/Halo 2?

 



PSN ID: krik

Optimistic predictions for 2008 (Feb 5 2008): Wii = 20M, PS3 = 14M, X360 = 9.5M

 

Around the Network

As to the extent of the cut, remember that even though the XBox launched with a similar deficit, MS was willing to drop the price $100 just 7 months after its US launch in order to match the PS2. It's now been over 24 months since the 360 launched, and likely another 2-4 months will pass before a price cut is announced. At this point, the XBox was down to just $180. If it were me, and I were trying to do an agressive push to keep Sony back on it's heels, I'd strongly consider a new pricing scheme of Arcade for $199, Premium for $249-275, and Elite for $350 (though personally I'd consider scrapping the Arcade price point all together). That would put the 360 in the Wii's price range, and well under the PS3s. While this would not force the Wii to cut price (which they could do painlessly), it could force Sony's hand and severely hurt their bottom line.


Price cuts will hurt both companies bottom lines, not only Sony's. You think MS has unlimited money to throw at their Xbox division? They have a lot of money ($23B in cash) but they have to manage it in such a way it produces more money and not piss it away. They are down $7B already in their Xbox business, I think they want to be on the black for a change.

PS: Sony also has $11B in cash so none of them will run out of money any time soon. 



PSN ID: krik

Optimistic predictions for 2008 (Feb 5 2008): Wii = 20M, PS3 = 14M, X360 = 9.5M

 

iberz said:

 

1. The new 360's reliability is excellent in comparison to the old motherboards.



No, it isn't.  I read through communities that talk about 360 reliability.  The 360 is still failing out of the box for a lot of people, replacement motherboards are still failing on short order, and MS isn't fixing them right much of the time.

krik sony will be bleeding non stop if they plan to keep up with 360, i highly doubt another price drop in the spring, they would recieve alot of crap for it. 3 price drops in 1 and a half years? Unlikely and would look terrible

They are already losing alot of money they dont want to make it worse



                 With regard to Call of Duty 4 having an ultra short single player campaign, I guess it may well have been due to the size limitations of DVD on the XBox 360, one of various limitations multi-platform game designers will have to take into consideration-Mike B   

Proud supporter of all 3 console companys

Proud owner of 360wii and DS/psp              

Game trailers-Halo 3 only dissapointed the people who wanted to be dissapointed.

Bet with Harvey Birdman that Lost Odyssey will sell more then Blue dragon did.

xbox last in worldwide sells, halo 3, biggest advertised game in and out

ps3 sales for first year around or more then xbox 360 sales for their first year while xbox 360 was the only next-gen out.

wii sells sometimes triple or double the sells of xbox or ps3 in worldwide sells



i would love to see the 360 drop 100 bucks down to $250 by mid-2008. cuz then i'd actually buy one! but also it'd just be interesting to see what ps3 would hit back with. i'm guessing sony can't afford to drop prices any lower than they are till next fall. anyway i think the ps3 will cut into 360's 7 million unit lead little by little (not necessarily every week or even every month but overall yes) but 7 million is a huge difference when you are talking about two systems that are both selling slowly. i'd say by end of 2009 ps3 might be in striking range probably only 2-3 million down from 360. ps3 will never catch 360 in NA and probably won't close the gap beyond what it is at now but it should pass 360 in Others in about a year.



end of '08 predictions: wii - 43 million,  360 - 25 million, ps3 - 20 million

 

Games I've beat recently: Super Mario Galaxy, Knights of the Old Republic, Shadow of the Collossus

 

Proud owner of wii, gamecube, xbox, ps2, dreamcast, n64, snes, genesis, 3DO, nes, atari, intellivision, unisonic tournament 2000, and gameboy