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Forums - General Discussion - being gay a choice vs born that way.

 

being gay a choice vs born that way.

It's a lifestyle choice 120 25.53%
 
Your born that way 250 53.19%
 
no opinion 36 7.66%
 
other---for anything I missed 62 13.19%
 
Total:468
Jumpin said:
If American Christians are so concerned about abiding by the sexual rules written in the stupider parts of the bible; then why do you also hate Islamic fundamentalists so much? Afterall, they are obviously representing a lifestyle that is far more Holy than yours.

You'd think that Christian fundementalists and Islamic fundementalists would be BFFs. The fact that they both consider their religions to be absolute will always be an impediment though.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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sapphi_snake said:
DélioPT said:

I don`t demand a single thing. I don`t really know why you are pointing the finger at me claiming that i am forcing someone to do something. Saying that i am forcing people or raping psychologically is completely unfair. I presented my view of the world no more than you presented your view.
When people read it they will either agree or not. Even if they are religious they will understand why i say what i say.

If practicing the act of homosexuality condemns you to hell, then well, we are all going to hell because everyone sins for one reason or another.
I hope you aren`t giving me, aswell, credit for those 3 quotes.

I can`t explain why people shouldn`t practice the act of homosexuality because it considered flaming by forum rules and i already have been notified once. But if you truly want to know why, you should consult the web for the christian take on homosexuality.

The mental and spiritual rape comes from the religious beleifs you try to force on people. And I'm well aware of the christian take on homosexuality, and I consider it to be out of touch with reality and hateful (these are the nicer adjectives I could come up with). I'm glad that hate speech isn't tolerated on this site. Too bad you can't realise why your beliefs are considered hateful in the first place.

Once again you use big words and accuse me of forcing someone to see the world as i do and that truly is not being in touch with reality. I never did that yet, somehow, in your mind i am doing that.
Do you know what an hateful speech is? If i said that gays are this or that, then you would probably would be right, thing is i never touch on the person who i think commits a sin. That`s a very important aspect you neglect.





DélioPT said:
sapphi_snake said:
DélioPT said:

I don`t demand a single thing. I don`t really know why you are pointing the finger at me claiming that i am forcing someone to do something. Saying that i am forcing people or raping psychologically is completely unfair. I presented my view of the world no more than you presented your view.
When people read it they will either agree or not. Even if they are religious they will understand why i say what i say.

If practicing the act of homosexuality condemns you to hell, then well, we are all going to hell because everyone sins for one reason or another.
I hope you aren`t giving me, aswell, credit for those 3 quotes.

I can`t explain why people shouldn`t practice the act of homosexuality because it considered flaming by forum rules and i already have been notified once. But if you truly want to know why, you should consult the web for the christian take on homosexuality.

The mental and spiritual rape comes from the religious beleifs you try to force on people. And I'm well aware of the christian take on homosexuality, and I consider it to be out of touch with reality and hateful (these are the nicer adjectives I could come up with). I'm glad that hate speech isn't tolerated on this site. Too bad you can't realise why your beliefs are considered hateful in the first place.

Once again you use big words and accuse me of forcing someone to see the world as i do and that truly is not being in touch with reality. I never did that yet, somehow, in your mind i am doing that.
Do you know what an hateful speech is? If i said that gays are this or that, then you would probably would be right, thing is i never touch on the person who i think commits a sin. That`s a very important aspect you neglect.



A person who thinks blacks are inferior, but who never does nanything to physically hurt them, is still a racist. And your very beleifs system has devastating effects on a gay person indoctrinated in them. I'm also sure you still hurt gay people through voting (when you get the chance), and marginalisation.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

DélioPT said:
sapphi_snake said:
DélioPT said:

I don`t demand a single thing. I don`t really know why you are pointing the finger at me claiming that i am forcing someone to do something. Saying that i am forcing people or raping psychologically is completely unfair. I presented my view of the world no more than you presented your view.
When people read it they will either agree or not. Even if they are religious they will understand why i say what i say.

If practicing the act of homosexuality condemns you to hell, then well, we are all going to hell because everyone sins for one reason or another.
I hope you aren`t giving me, aswell, credit for those 3 quotes.

I can`t explain why people shouldn`t practice the act of homosexuality because it considered flaming by forum rules and i already have been notified once. But if you truly want to know why, you should consult the web for the christian take on homosexuality.

The mental and spiritual rape comes from the religious beleifs you try to force on people. And I'm well aware of the christian take on homosexuality, and I consider it to be out of touch with reality and hateful (these are the nicer adjectives I could come up with). I'm glad that hate speech isn't tolerated on this site. Too bad you can't realise why your beliefs are considered hateful in the first place.

Once again you use big words and accuse me of forcing someone to see the world as i do and that truly is not being in touch with reality. I never did that yet, somehow, in your mind i am doing that.
Do you know what an hateful speech is? If i said that gays are this or that, then you would probably would be right, thing is i never touch on the person who i think commits a sin. That`s a very important aspect you neglect.



What is your opinion on this Gospel section, not just any, but words that came from the Mouth of Jesus... right at the beginning of the New Testament:

Matthew 10:34

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--
a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

sapphi_snake said:
DélioPT said:

Once again you use big words and accuse me of forcing someone to see the world as i do and that truly is not being in touch with reality. I never did that yet, somehow, in your mind i am doing that.
Do you know what an hateful speech is? If i said that gays are this or that, then you would probably would be right, thing is i never touch on the person who i think commits a sin. That`s a very important aspect you neglect.



A person who thinks blacks are inferior, but who never does nanything to physically hurt them, is still a racist. And your very beleifs system has devastating effects on a gay person indoctrinated in them. I'm also sure you still hurt gay people through voting (when you get the chance), and marginalisation.


Thing is i don`t think anyone is inferior to anyone. Why should it have any effect? Either they don`t agree with me or they do. Nobody is spreading hate on anyone.
"I'm also sure you still hurt gay people through voting (when you get the chance), and marginalisation."
Don`t make assumptions on someone you don`t even know.



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Jumpin said:

What is your opinion on this Gospel section, not just any, but words that came from the Mouth of Jesus... right at the beginning of the New Testament:

Matthew 10:34

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--
a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.

"...Christ did not here mean to say that the object of his coming was to produce discord and contention, for he was the Prince of Peace, Isaiah 9:6; Isaiah 11:6; Luke 2:14; but he means to say that such would be one of the effects of his coming. One part of a family that was opposed to Him would set themselves against those who believed in him. The wickedness of men, and not the religion of the gospel, is the cause of this hostility. It is unnecessary to say that no prophecy has been more strikingly fulfilled; and it will continue to be fulfilled until all unite in obeying his commandments. Then his religion will produce universal peace..." - http://bible.cc/matthew/10-34.htm



DélioPT said:
naruball said:
DélioPT said:

I hear people proclaim they were gay all their lives; i hear people proclaim they were but then they realised they were wrong, that they weren`t.
Honestly, i don`t care if one is born with such inclination or it goes that way during their lives and i don`t think that it should matter to anyone, in a sense. Because, for us christians, it doesn`t matter how you were born, it`s what you do that makes it ok or not.
We nor anyone should have anything against this or that person, but we do see the act of homosexuality as a sin. If people don`t agree at least try to understand our point of view: we do not wish for anyone to be descriminated for the person they are - even if some people do descriminate - but understand that, believing in what we believe, we cannot be by your side if you decide to practice homosexuality.

as i always say, and as Joelcoll said it, we are only against sins not the person behind it.

Well to be honest, I am a Christian too and I identify myself as gay, but I totally get your point. However, you have to admit that some things seem quite ridiculous. Isn't it also a sin to wear synthetic  clothers or eat shrimps? And how is it ok to take an eye for an eye, but also turn the other cheek? How many Christian guys masturbate or have premarital sex or drink/eat too much, swear, lie etc., while being fully aware that it is a sin? We don't call those sinners, now do we? I'm not suggesting that they're not according to the bible, but we seem to think it's okay-ish, since everyone does it, you know, we're only human. I haven't seen any people protest against those who have premarital sex (or signs of "God hates wankers"), so why do we make homosexuality a bigger deal than the rest?

I personally believe in the foundamental values of Christianity, such as love your enemy, forgive him, not cheating, stealing etc.

Everybody sins. That`s my point. I am a sinner and i have conscience of what i do that is a sin - at least in the majority of cases. But that`s one way of seeing things as it makes easier to refer the person who sinned. I think the most honest way is to say someone sinned. It`s like saying that someone who lied is a liar. The fairest way is to say he/she sinned.
" so why do we make homosexuality a bigger deal than the rest?"
you are right. To me it`s no different than anything else like premarital sex as you mentioned or even casual sex, for that matter. I don`t treat it differently, at least i try no to as to not see someone else differently because of that extra importance.

For all that matter, we really are just human. We will make mistakes, if not today, tomorrow. But all that matters is that, when that happens, we can recognize what we did and ask forgiveness for our sins. God knows we aren`t perfect so He does forgive everything if we can honestly say we failed and ask for His' forgiveness.

The underlined part is what gets to me. I WILL NOT ask for forgiveness for loving my boyfriend. I can't accept that every single day of my life is filled with sin just because I'm in love with a guy.

That's why people saying it's a sin is such a big deal: lying, premarital sex are individual acts you can ask forgiveness for but being gay is a permanent thing.



Signature goes here!

TruckOSaurus said:
DélioPT said:
naruball said:
DélioPT said:

I hear people proclaim they were gay all their lives; i hear people proclaim they were but then they realised they were wrong, that they weren`t.
Honestly, i don`t care if one is born with such inclination or it goes that way during their lives and i don`t think that it should matter to anyone, in a sense. Because, for us christians, it doesn`t matter how you were born, it`s what you do that makes it ok or not.
We nor anyone should have anything against this or that person, but we do see the act of homosexuality as a sin. If people don`t agree at least try to understand our point of view: we do not wish for anyone to be descriminated for the person they are - even if some people do descriminate - but understand that, believing in what we believe, we cannot be by your side if you decide to practice homosexuality.

as i always say, and as Joelcoll said it, we are only against sins not the person behind it.

Well to be honest, I am a Christian too and I identify myself as gay, but I totally get your point. However, you have to admit that some things seem quite ridiculous. Isn't it also a sin to wear synthetic  clothers or eat shrimps? And how is it ok to take an eye for an eye, but also turn the other cheek? How many Christian guys masturbate or have premarital sex or drink/eat too much, swear, lie etc., while being fully aware that it is a sin? We don't call those sinners, now do we? I'm not suggesting that they're not according to the bible, but we seem to think it's okay-ish, since everyone does it, you know, we're only human. I haven't seen any people protest against those who have premarital sex (or signs of "God hates wankers"), so why do we make homosexuality a bigger deal than the rest?

I personally believe in the foundamental values of Christianity, such as love your enemy, forgive him, not cheating, stealing etc.

Everybody sins. That`s my point. I am a sinner and i have conscience of what i do that is a sin - at least in the majority of cases. But that`s one way of seeing things as it makes easier to refer the person who sinned. I think the most honest way is to say someone sinned. It`s like saying that someone who lied is a liar. The fairest way is to say he/she sinned.
" so why do we make homosexuality a bigger deal than the rest?"
you are right. To me it`s no different than anything else like premarital sex as you mentioned or even casual sex, for that matter. I don`t treat it differently, at least i try no to as to not see someone else differently because of that extra importance.

For all that matter, we really are just human. We will make mistakes, if not today, tomorrow. But all that matters is that, when that happens, we can recognize what we did and ask forgiveness for our sins. God knows we aren`t perfect so He does forgive everything if we can honestly say we failed and ask for His' forgiveness.

The underlined part is what gets to me. I WILL NOT ask for forgiveness for loving my boyfriend. I can't accept that every single day of my life is filled with sin just because I'm in love with a guy.

That's why people saying it's a sin is such a big deal: lying, premarital sex are individual acts you can ask forgiveness for but being gay is a permanent thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't DélioPT just saying that both homo/hetero sex is a sin? Not loving your bf, but having sex with him (same as couples are not supposed to use a condom or enjoy sex, just do it to have children). So in that sense it is a choice: you can be (born) gay and not have sex for the rest of your life (I'm not saying that I agree with that, just that this is the Christian view, according to the bible).



It can be both. I love gay people they are very nice



naruball said:
TruckOSaurus said:
DélioPT said:
naruball said:
DélioPT said:

I hear people proclaim they were gay all their lives; i hear people proclaim they were but then they realised they were wrong, that they weren`t.
Honestly, i don`t care if one is born with such inclination or it goes that way during their lives and i don`t think that it should matter to anyone, in a sense. Because, for us christians, it doesn`t matter how you were born, it`s what you do that makes it ok or not.
We nor anyone should have anything against this or that person, but we do see the act of homosexuality as a sin. If people don`t agree at least try to understand our point of view: we do not wish for anyone to be descriminated for the person they are - even if some people do descriminate - but understand that, believing in what we believe, we cannot be by your side if you decide to practice homosexuality.

as i always say, and as Joelcoll said it, we are only against sins not the person behind it.

Well to be honest, I am a Christian too and I identify myself as gay, but I totally get your point. However, you have to admit that some things seem quite ridiculous. Isn't it also a sin to wear synthetic  clothers or eat shrimps? And how is it ok to take an eye for an eye, but also turn the other cheek? How many Christian guys masturbate or have premarital sex or drink/eat too much, swear, lie etc., while being fully aware that it is a sin? We don't call those sinners, now do we? I'm not suggesting that they're not according to the bible, but we seem to think it's okay-ish, since everyone does it, you know, we're only human. I haven't seen any people protest against those who have premarital sex (or signs of "God hates wankers"), so why do we make homosexuality a bigger deal than the rest?

I personally believe in the foundamental values of Christianity, such as love your enemy, forgive him, not cheating, stealing etc.

Everybody sins. That`s my point. I am a sinner and i have conscience of what i do that is a sin - at least in the majority of cases. But that`s one way of seeing things as it makes easier to refer the person who sinned. I think the most honest way is to say someone sinned. It`s like saying that someone who lied is a liar. The fairest way is to say he/she sinned.
" so why do we make homosexuality a bigger deal than the rest?"
you are right. To me it`s no different than anything else like premarital sex as you mentioned or even casual sex, for that matter. I don`t treat it differently, at least i try no to as to not see someone else differently because of that extra importance.

For all that matter, we really are just human. We will make mistakes, if not today, tomorrow. But all that matters is that, when that happens, we can recognize what we did and ask forgiveness for our sins. God knows we aren`t perfect so He does forgive everything if we can honestly say we failed and ask for His' forgiveness.

The underlined part is what gets to me. I WILL NOT ask for forgiveness for loving my boyfriend. I can't accept that every single day of my life is filled with sin just because I'm in love with a guy.

That's why people saying it's a sin is such a big deal: lying, premarital sex are individual acts you can ask forgiveness for but being gay is a permanent thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't DélioPT just saying that both homo/hetero sex is a sin? Not loving your bf, but having sex with him (same as couples are not supposed to use a condom or enjoy sex, just do it to have children). So in that sense it is a choice: you can be (born) gay and not have sex for the rest of your life (I'm not saying that I agree with that, just that this is the Christian view, according to the bible).

It`s as naruball puts it: it`s the act that is seen as a sin, not the love part. Actually that`s a very important difference that people don´t realize and wrongly percieve the Christian point of view.