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Resident_Hazard said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Resident_Hazard said:
LordTheNightKnight said:


This is the second time in a thread I strongly agree with you. That is either frightening and/or interesting.

 

I have my moments.


I was sure someone would bring the torches and pitchforks to me for "ripping on Mario" in there (it might still happen), but I'm so sick of Nintendo over-using the character, like they're desperate for sales and afraid to try anything new or different.  

Nintendo:  "Let's make a sports game!"

Nintendo dev:  "Okay!"  

Nintendo:  "Hey, let's make it with Mario!"

Nintendo dev:  "For some reason, we agree that's a good idea!"  

 

Constantly being bombarded with Tony Hawk, Sonic, and Guitar Hero certainly didn't help those franchises.  I'd really rather not see a childhood icon turned into the next latter-day Sonic.


I don't mind some of them, but after looking at how they haven't made a proper new Kirby game since I don't know, it seems they have this habit of taking characers and slapping them on any game just to try to coast on the character's name. Now Mario is established in sports games, so I can take that (and STILL think a Koopa shell surfing game SHOULD be made), but the series still sells best as a "Run to the goal" platformer, and that is what Nintendo keeps neglecting.

So I agree with you on this, just in differing ways.

I absolutely love Kirby's Epic Yarn (and find it humorous that it lies, alphabetically, between Manhunt 2, MadWorld, House of the Dead 2&3 and Overkill on my shelf), but it is exactly what you said:  A game Nintendo slapped a character into to coast on the name.  Kirby fit well into that game, but it was originally just starring that Prince Puff guy.  

I'm huge on Mario platformers, loved the classic SNES Mario RPG, but have turned against Mario Kart (a game series I have marked as my nemesis due to it's unique ability to drive me to extreme anger at record speed), have no interest in Mario sports games, and have simply stopped caring about Paper Mario.  Nintendo used to make a huge variety of games without needing to cram Mario into them, and when they did make a new Mario game--it was cause for celebration.  Granted, Ken Griffey Jr retired last year, but they could still make their own "regular" baseball game.  

I feel like they're freely neglecting any number of franchises just to keep making stuff themed around Mario.  Where were F-Zero or StarFox on the Wii?  I thought a motion-controlled Arwing would be cool.  

The system was severly lacking in FPS titles, and yet no upgraded sequel to Geist.  It's beating a dead horse to talk about how Nintendo once "ushered in the era of the console FPS" in no small part to Goldeneye and the Turok games being N64 exclusives--only to wonder how they abandoned a genre for no good reason since then.  

I get this idea that Nintendo seems to be turning into Sega--you know, getting unnecessarily lazy in their game development and design philosophy.  Except that Sega didn't get lazy until they no longer had consoles depending on their games being good.  In a sense, even Mario Galaxy 2 was lazy--look closely--it's the first Mario sequel since the Japanese Super Mario 2 (our western "Lost Levels," of course) that was built on the same engine as its predecessor.  

Sure, it was good, but where's the dramatic leap like we had with Super Mario Bros 3 or Mario World?

To be fair, a Koopa shell surfing game would probably work.  But I'd really rather not see it happen until they can give Mario a little break--and let some of their other franchises (and some new ones) a chance to shine in the spotlight.  

They tried to keep away from Mario at E3 2008, look what happened. The problem is, they seem so insecure about pushing anything other than Mario, (and to a lesser extent, Zelda and Metroid). Like I said, no Mario at E3 2008. They tried to appeal to the hardcore in 09, and look at how they did it, how many Mario games did they show at E3 2009? Then at E3 2010, they show ANOTHER Mario game. I don't think that Nintendo will ever retire Mario completely, but you are right, he needs to take a break.

It seems like,the more money they make off of him, the more they cash in, and Super Mario All Stars is a good example of this.

I don't think they are getting lazy, just look at Zelda, but the amount of effort that goes into Mario games has greatly diminished. Every year Nintendo pumps out another Mario game, the flagship Mario title is usually one of the first games to be confirmed for a new console, and like I said, Mario is the star of every E3.

It seems like Nintendo as a whole is stuck in a rut . The games are getting more and more linear, and the company is getting static. Back in the SNES and N64 days, they had games in every genre, now it's just platformers and Zelda.

BOTTOM LINE: It's time for Nintendo to make a change for the better.



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IamAwsome said:
Resident_Hazard said:
LordTheNightKnight said:


I don't mind some of them, but after looking at how they haven't made a proper new Kirby game since I don't know, it seems they have this habit of taking characers and slapping them on any game just to try to coast on the character's name. Now Mario is established in sports games, so I can take that (and STILL think a Koopa shell surfing game SHOULD be made), but the series still sells best as a "Run to the goal" platformer, and that is what Nintendo keeps neglecting.

So I agree with you on this, just in differing ways.

I absolutely love Kirby's Epic Yarn (and find it humorous that it lies, alphabetically, between Manhunt 2, MadWorld, House of the Dead 2&3 and Overkill on my shelf), but it is exactly what you said:  A game Nintendo slapped a character into to coast on the name.  Kirby fit well into that game, but it was originally just starring that Prince Puff guy.  

I'm huge on Mario platformers, loved the classic SNES Mario RPG, but have turned against Mario Kart (a game series I have marked as my nemesis due to it's unique ability to drive me to extreme anger at record speed), have no interest in Mario sports games, and have simply stopped caring about Paper Mario.  Nintendo used to make a huge variety of games without needing to cram Mario into them, and when they did make a new Mario game--it was cause for celebration.  Granted, Ken Griffey Jr retired last year, but they could still make their own "regular" baseball game.  

I feel like they're freely neglecting any number of franchises just to keep making stuff themed around Mario.  Where were F-Zero or StarFox on the Wii?  I thought a motion-controlled Arwing would be cool.  

The system was severly lacking in FPS titles, and yet no upgraded sequel to Geist.  It's beating a dead horse to talk about how Nintendo once "ushered in the era of the console FPS" in no small part to Goldeneye and the Turok games being N64 exclusives--only to wonder how they abandoned a genre for no good reason since then.  

I get this idea that Nintendo seems to be turning into Sega--you know, getting unnecessarily lazy in their game development and design philosophy.  Except that Sega didn't get lazy until they no longer had consoles depending on their games being good.  In a sense, even Mario Galaxy 2 was lazy--look closely--it's the first Mario sequel since the Japanese Super Mario 2 (our western "Lost Levels," of course) that was built on the same engine as its predecessor.  

Sure, it was good, but where's the dramatic leap like we had with Super Mario Bros 3 or Mario World?

To be fair, a Koopa shell surfing game would probably work.  But I'd really rather not see it happen until they can give Mario a little break--and let some of their other franchises (and some new ones) a chance to shine in the spotlight.  

They tried to keep away from Mario at E3 2008, look what happened. The problem is, they seem so insecure about pushing anything other than Mario, (and to a lesser extent, Zelda and Metroid). Like I said, no Mario at E3 2008. They tried to appeal to the hardcore in 09, and look at how they did it, how many Mario games did they show at E3 2009? Then at E3 2010, they show ANOTHER Mario game. I don't think that Nintendo will ever retire Mario completely, but you are right, he needs to take a break.

It seems like,the more money they make off of him, the more they cash in, and Super Mario All Stars is a good example of this.

I don't think they are getting lazy, just look at Zelda, but the amount of effort that goes into Mario games has greatly diminished. Every year Nintendo pumps out another Mario game, the flagship Mario title is usually one of the first games to be confirmed for a new console, and like I said, Mario is the star of every E3.

It seems like Nintendo as a whole is stuck in a rut . The games are getting more and more linear, and the company is getting static. Back in the SNES and N64 days, they had games in every genre, now it's just platformers and Zelda.

BOTTOM LINE: It's time for Nintendo to make a change for the better.


Don't over-simplify Nintendo's lame-ass 2008 E3--it wasn't because Mario didn't show up (in a sense he did with Smash Bros information which, let's be honest, is like 30% of being yet another Mario game).  E3 2008 sucked because they focused almost exclusively on the casual market and spotlighted one of their worst games in recent years:  Wii Music.  

I agree with you that Nintendo seems stuck in a rut--with a caveat--that they aren't sure which direction to take into the future, nor are they sure how to do it.  They keep going back and forth, rather than doing everything with the same level of quality and style.  One year it's casual crap, the next it's hardcore, the next it's peripherals, the next it's a new gimmick in hardcore games.  Never a smooth presentation with variety.  

I would disagree on Zelda, though--as I've felt that, with rare exception, that franchise has been in a rut since the N64 days.  Aside from Majora's Mask, pretty much every game has the same basic plot, plot elements, characters, character surprises, and plot twists.  Even the initially, seemingly-different, Oracle games fell into the same hum-drum Zelda plot once you combined the two.  "Sweet, a huge final boss to cap off the two gamessss.... Oh.  It's Ganon again. *sigh*"  

We, as Nintendo fans, have long looked at the Zelda franchise as Nintendo's "storytelling powerhouse," yet when you boil it down, that franchise is no different than Super Mario platformers--the vast majority recycle the same plot, characters, gameplay style and focus, themes, music, etc.  Sure, we have our "oddball" titles like Super Mario Bros 2 and Link's Awakening; Super Mario World 2 and Majora's Mask--but the vast majority do the same thing over and over again.  I don't expect Mario to have deep, thought-provoking plotlines--but I should be able to expect that from Zelda.

Instead, both franchises deliver the "save the damned kidnapped princess" storyline constantly.  It makes me wonder why we still act like Zelda games deliver any amount of originality.  I thought Wind Waker was unimaginably beautiful when I got it "back in the day" (with my preorder bonus of the OoT/Master Quest), but walked away feeling like the only draw to the game was the graphics (and the final battle was cinematic and cool).  I thought it was repetitive, boring at times, overly easy, and incredibly predictable.  

Wind Waker, to me, was a color-by-numbers Zelda affair, with the only difference being that they used watercolors rather than oil paints (if you catch the analogy).  

Anyway, yes, I agree with you--Nintendo is stuck in a rut--where their creativity at game development is concerned.  They let classic franchises languish, or hand them off to teams unsure of what to do with them (like Metroid Other M), and focus their attention on more and more stuff with Mario as main draw.  I've long said Nintendo fans need to be willing to branch out from 1st party franchises to actually give 3rd party studios a chance--but beyond that, Nintendo fans need to stop buying anything and everything with Mario in it, just because it's Mario.  

It's sending Nintendo a message that "we want more Mario crap, regardless of quality," and sending 3rd party developers the message that "we don't care about the quality of your game, we care only for Mario and a couple other Nintendo things."  It's a shame to see a great game like the Wii Sin & Punishment launch to solid reviews, only to watch even it die on store shelves in the face of half a dozen constantly-marketed Mario titles.  Gamers like me were eager to have a solid, very hardcore-focused title from Nintendo (and Treasure!!), and it saddens me to see that it sold so poorly.  Same thing happened to Eternal Darkness.  Nintendo is afraid to take chances like they did with Eternal Darkness--chances they should take--because of this kind of fan dismissal.  

I'll admit it--I was a bigger Nintendo fanboy at the time, and I initially dismissed Eternal Darkness.  Then I grew a pair and played it (on display in a store).  I'm goddamned glad I did, because I bought it immediately.  And Eternal Darkness, along with Super Metroid, remains my favorite game of all time.  But Nintendo fans generally overlooked it.  And the Wii outside Japan remained without Fatal Frame.  Nintendo fans buying nothing but a few core franchises left Disaster's release locked to Europe and Japan.  I don't care that Disaster was generally considered lackluster--Nintendo needed these two titles released internationally on the Wii if for no other reason than to give consumers and hardcore gamers added variety to their choices for Wii games.  Reggie himself basically stated that Disaster would only get a US release if "it looked feasible" (looked like it would sell).  Gee, I wonder why he evidentally thought it wouldn't?

Probably because of a nasty pattern of Nintendo fans not being more receptive to "different" games.  

 

Another reason I see Nintendo as being in a rut, or even lazy, is that rather than finally giving us a new long-awaited StarFox game, they're basically just "upgrading" an old one.   I love StarFox64.  And I'm not buying it on the 3DS.  I played it to death already, back in the day, and got medals on every stage on both difficulties.  I also played OoT to death back in the day.  I'll be skipping both for Kid Icarus.  A game that, like Eternal Darkness and Sin & Punishment, I'm sure is going to be harshley overlooked by the Nintendo faithful for their security blanket Zelda and StarFox remakes.

Frankly, I still want Project HAMMER.  



DrYon said:
Resident_Hazard said:

Grand Theft Auto V isn't going to happen because GTA, and GTA-style games don't sell on Nintendo systems because, you know, they don't have Mario in them.


GTA: Chinatown Wars (DS Version) - 1.19 million units sold

GTA: Chinatown Wars (PSP Version) - 0.81 million units sold

Nintendo console wins!

Considering that GTA games on every other system typically sell vastly more than Chinatown Wars on DS did, by Rockstar and GTA standards--it was damn near a failure, and considered disappointing.  Especially when you consider the vastly higher number of DS units sold.  By your numbers and DS & PSP sales numbers, it sold--percentage-wise--better on the PSP.  But the main reason it sold poorly on the PSP was because it was "just a port" of a DS game on a system with it's own pre-existing "regular" GTA games--which sold vastly better than Chinatown Wars.

Yes, the percentages I mentioned aren't actual sales numbers, but it means that even as kind of a disappointment on the PSP, Chinatown Wars was still ignored by far fewer people on the PSP than on the DS.



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