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Project Cafe/3DS and the abandoning of the consumer

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Project Cafe/3DS and the abandoning of the consumer

Aiddon said:
alfredofroylan said:
Mr Khan said:

It's just as asinine as the people earlier in the generation who cherry-picked Nintendo's casual moves and declared that they abandoned the core. It's the same damn thing just from a different perspective

The problem is that this perspective is more annoying.


And pretentious.

Made even worse by the fact the original doomsayers are still present, already championing the PS4/720 will outperform the Wii 2/Cafe/Stream/Whatever at the same time a new batch are declaring Nintendo has abandoned thier new audience and have already failed.

Largely thanks to a rumor IGN posted. Hey, in 2005 GamesRadar posted a rumor that the Wii (Then Revolution) would have an LCD touch screen controller. Where did this rumor come from? This patent drawing.

 

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This is different. Now (well hopefully) they are trying to appeal to EVERYONE.



 

        

Nintendo will be fine if they follow their own strategy of accessible price and controls. Since the introduction of the Wii, HD TV sets became very popular and Nintendo knew the next console would need upgraded graphics. We don't know anything about Café controls. Even being different from the Wii, they may be as accessible as possible to people not used to play games all the time. We will see. Finally, the most important point is the price point. Café cannot be priced more than the PS3, otherwise customers will look elsewhere to spend their money.



Monteblanco said:

 Café cannot be priced more than the PS3, otherwise customers will look elsewhere to spend their money.


Bull. That's like saying Wii should not have been priced more than PS2.

Cafe = 8th gen console

PS3 = 7th gen console



Lets wait until we know more about "Project Cafe".



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

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Didn't you have a last thread that made no sense also?



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Mr Khan said:

These Malstrom inspired unfoundedly negative threads are giving me migraines. Cherry pick a few games and statistics, declare that this defines Nintendo's entire direction, then declare doom

It's just as asinine as the people earlier in the generation who cherry-picked Nintendo's casual moves and declared that they abandoned the core. It's the same damn thing just from a different perspective


Thank You! You know on another site these threads mean instant ban! Or at least put all of this in one dam thread so people can see what they need to avoid.



 

Just because someone is saying something different. Doesn't mean their point of view is right!

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archbrix said:
axt113 said:
archbrix said:

First off, the SNES was not a major decline or under-performer for its time at all.  They simply had stronger competition than they had before.

Second, what you don't realize is that market disruption is not always the key to success.  With the Wii, yes it was the right time for a system like that.  But look at the PS2:  The most successful home console ever by a wide margin.  Did it offer any new ways to play or new hooks never seen before?  Other than the inclusion of a DVD player, no, it didn't.  It was just the right system at the right time; outperforming the Dreamcast by just enough in both power, and most importantly, support, and not able to be outperformed enough in these areas by any competition in the near future.

Many of the "blue ocean" people who bought the Wii were the expanded market customers who played Wii Sports and bought Wii Fit, but then failed to continue to support the console because they're not true gamers.  The PS2, however, was largely bought by people who play games and continued to support the system by buying more games consistently.  Yes, it's important to try to appeal to the former, but it's the latter that keep consoles successful overall.  And when your as successful as the PS2 with the latter, you end up with some of the former as well.

It's too early to tell whether or not Project Cafe will be a resounding success, but I believe Nintendo is going for a PS2-like strategy; coming off of a successful predecessor and aiming to be the right system at the right time for the market.


A few problems with that, first off, the SNES was a failure for its time, the only reason that Genesis became such a strong competitor was because of Nintendo missteps.

The reason expanded audiences didn;t contiune to support he console was because Nintendo never followed through with the ideas of Wii Sports and Wii Fit, motion plus and the balance board got almost no support from Nintendo.

Nintendo will never enjoy the same level of third party support on Cafe that the PS2 saw, so the idea that Cafe will somehow emulate the PS2 is just wishful thinking, at best it will get ports and mediocre multiplats

1.  What missteps did Nintendo make with the SNES?  They had all of their major franchises including a fantastic 2D Mario and Mario Kart, not to mention great 3rd party support.  Remember that home consoles weren't used to seeing 100m selling systems yet...

2.  This I can agree with to a degree, especially about the balance board, but one could argue that we did see ideas expanding off of those games, they just weren't good enough or different enough to appeal to those who were sold on Wii Sports/Fit.  Games like Wii Music, Carnival Games and tons of other 3rd party shovelware are essentially trying to appeal to the expanded audience, but perhaps the desire for those market expanding games just wasn't there from a longevity standpoint.

3.  Here, what you say is certainly possible, but there's so many people who assume that Nintendo automatically means little to no 3rd party support, and that this will never change.  Why?  Look at the NES compared to the Sega Master System and Atari 7800.  I don't think anyone would argue that.  But the SNES too had nice, healthy support from 3rd parties.  Probably the biggest 3rd party game at the time, Street Fighter 2, absolutely obliterated the Genesis and TurboGrafx version's sales on SNES.  If Project Cafe is truly being created as very developer-friendly, there's no reason why we won't see third party support return to Nintendo.  It's even rumored that Rockstar has a development kit for Project Cafe and is planning GTA 5 as a possible launch game.  It won't be exclusive, but if Nintendo gets to unveil the game for their E3 conference it would be a huge coup for Project Cafe and speak volumes as to what 3rd party support could look like.


Just having a 2D Mario game at launch isn't enough, you have to have games that follow up that momentum, it took them years to release a game like DKC, not a way to build momentum.

Saying that games are created for the expanded audience doesn;t mean the expanded audience thinks so, Wii Music was a total flop, the expanded audience didn;t want it.

We'll see, but I wouldn't hold my breath about third party support



dharh said:

Even though I don't like the direction Nintendo has been going in (havn't since the Wii), what the crap is going on in this thread?

Nintendogs isn't selling? Are you high? I think over half of all 3DS sales have come with a Nintendogs sale. Sure the 3DS is selling a bit under what Nintendo originally projected, but thats easy to figure. Price, economy, lack of 3D actually adding much to the gaming experience as apposed to what motion controls added. Still, the 3DS is going to be a success, probably still a larger success than the NGP.

We do not know enough about project cafe to make any predictions on whether it furthers Nintendos departure in traditional gaming or whether its an attempt to bring everything back together again.


Bigger than NGP is no success, that's like the SNES being bigger thanthe Genesis, didn;t change the decline.

 

Nintendogogs isn't selling, its sales are terrible, less than 30K WW

 

The economy, ha, if the market wanted the 3DS, it would be selling



alfredofroylan said:
axt113 said:
Yeah things like Nintendo not releasing the software that attracted huge audiences with the NES, it gave Sega the opening.

No actually the causual gamers didn't get their future games fulfilled, proof is in the number of games that actually support things like motion plus and the balance board, etc., very limited support, Nintendo never fulfilled the Wii promise, one or two games is not enough, which is why the expanded audience didn;t keep the Wii supported.

 games like Galaxy, M:OM, Zelda didn't keep Wii supported , look at the sales and console moving power of those games, then look at that of 2D Mario, heck 2D Mario probably sold more consoles than all of those other games comined

Check the history 1989 and 1990 are the years with the biggest amount of NES games released including Super Mario Bros 3; Sega did a great job with the Genesis with games like Strider, Moonwalker and Sonic, the first two were promoted as "True Arcade experiences" and the last one as "The next cool thing", Strider and Moonwalker are impossible to recreate in the NES due the system lack of power and Sonic is just a good game with good PR, the SNES was released 2 years later and even with big chunck of the 16-bit market distributed between the Genesis and the TurboGrafx it ended up selling more than both.

Also there's a good amount of support for the Balance Board in fact checking the games that made use of it is a good example of how the so called "casual audience" is a double edge weapon, just comparte this with this, yes the lack of support for the motion plus is bad, but honestly most people didn't buy Wii Sports Resort for the Motion Plus. And yes 2D Mario sell console but you can't release them year after year.

 


You misunderstood, I was saying that the SNES didn't have the games that attracted the gamers like the NES did, even if SNES released two years later, it should have blown by the Genesis if it had the games that people wanted, the NES blew by gaming PC's and the Wii blew by the 360, but the NES struggled to even beat the Genesis

 

Yeah I looked at the chart on wikipedia, most of those games are shovelware garbage, that's not support, support is getting high quality games, stuff that made Wii fit look like what it was, just a tech demo, nothing o nthat list compares.