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Project Cafe/3DS and the abandoning of the consumer

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Project Cafe/3DS and the abandoning of the consumer

Smashchu2 said:
As I've said before, the 3DS should be doing BETTER. It's not. Heck, even still, people are buying the 6 year old PSP over the new 3DS. The DS was able to do well because of games like Nintendogs and New Super Mario Bros. Nintendogs is already on the 3DS and DS owners are not upgrading. DS owners do not want a 3DS. There also isn't a 2D Mario in sight. The only saving grace is Mario Kart and Animal Crossing, but if Nintendogs did not help, then why would these games?

The DS had a weak launch for many reasons but mostly due to launching with an N64 game. The system starting doing well when it made games that were like NES and SNES games as well as new games (Brain Age, Nintendogs). The 3DS will soon have OoT which will also not help the system. Time will tell, but DS owners are looking to not upgrade and they will reject the value of 3D. This is more serious then people think because Nintendo's handheld market has been tarnished.

It's way too soon to jump to those conclusion. There are way more factors than 3D that people could be rejecting (price, battery life, not enough games), and it's possible (most likely) that this is just temporary.

Also, how do you know OoT will not help the system? Were you there at launch in the near future?



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The last nintendo console i had was the snes... so if they return to that roots, where the real gamer was the center of the console, i will probably buy cafe and ps4.

It is important to understand wii as a toy console, and ps3 and 360 like hardcore consoles... it is not stupid to think that nintendo can fulfill the "toy gamer" with games for the cafe that are also for the wii (like ps3 games that are in ps2 also).



padib said:
Smashchu2 said:
As I've said before, the 3DS should be doing BETTER. It's not. Heck, even still, people are buying the 6 year old PSP over the new 3DS. The DS was able to do well because of games like Nintendogs and New Super Mario Bros. Nintendogs is already on the 3DS and DS owners are not upgrading. DS owners do not want a 3DS. There also isn't a 2D Mario in sight. The only saving grace is Mario Kart and Animal Crossing, but if Nintendogs did not help, then why would these games?

The DS had a weak launch for many reasons but mostly due to launching with an N64 game. The system starting doing well when it made games that were like NES and SNES games as well as new games (Brain Age, Nintendogs). The 3DS will soon have OoT which will also not help the system. Time will tell, but DS owners are looking to not upgrade and they will reject the value of 3D. This is more serious then people think because Nintendo's handheld market has been tarnished.

It's way too soon to jump to those conclusion. There are way more factors than 3D that people could be rejecting (price, battery life, not enough games), and it's possible (most likely) that this is just temporary.

Also, how do you know OoT will not help the system? Were you there at launch in the near future?

All of those things you mentioned are a problem with the system and a problem with 3D. The battery life is bad because of #D. The price is high because of 3D. Games are bad because 3D is harder to make (but there was Nintendogs so "lack of hit software" is obviously not a problem).

The reason OoT wont help is because N64 games have never worked out for Nintendo. The DS launched with Mario 64 and sales were low. It was being beaten by the PSP. What saved the DS was SNES games and new games like Nintendogs and New Super Mario Bros. Launching another N64 game is only going to solidify it's possition as a weak system and put Nintendo in the worst possition it's ever been it: a bad economic market with no handheld market to back it up.

Nintendo will not be able to re-brand itself like they did with the DS because it is marketed as "3D." The 3DS will forever be about 3D and drive away customers (which is already happening. 3D gives people headachs amd they dont want to play 3D games). Nintendo will have to abandon the system in order to rebrand itself.



Mr Khan said:
Smashchu2 said:
Mr Khan said:
 

Ah, but they did *not* do it with the DS in its earliest weeks, as proven by that chart. Aside from that third week bounce, those numbers are nothing to brag about against 3DSes, slightly better at a level that is negligible

Or are we looking at two very different charts?

As I've said before, the 3DS should be doing BETTER. It's not. Heck, even still, people are buying the 6 year old PSP over the new 3DS. The DS was able to do well because of games like Nintendogs and New Super Mario Bros. Nintendogs is already on the 3DS and DS owners are not upgrading. DS owners do not want a 3DS. There also isn't a 2D Mario in sight. The only saving grace is Mario Kart and Animal Crossing, but if Nintendogs did not help, then why would these games?

The DS had a weak launch for many reasons but mostly due to launching with an N64 game. The system starting doing well when it made games that were like NES and SNES games as well as new games (Brain Age, Nintendogs). The 3DS will soon have OoT which will also not help the system. Time will tell, but DS owners are looking to not upgrade and they will reject the value of 3D. This is more serious then people think because Nintendo's handheld market has been tarnished.

So we're holding new handhelds to higher standards than others historically.

Gotcha

The DS had a worse line up of Games than the 3DS and had very strong compition from the PSP. It was thought that Sony would take the handheld market. The 3DS has Nintendogs (the sequel to the system that made the DS) is selling to a warm market and has no compeition. By all of this, the 3DS should be doing far better.



Smashchu2 said:
Mr Khan said:

So we're holding new handhelds to higher standards than others historically.

Gotcha

The DS had a worse line up of Games than the 3DS and had very strong compition from the PSP. It was thought that Sony would take the handheld market. The 3DS has Nintendogs (the sequel to the system that made the DS) is selling to a warm market and has no compeition. By all of this, the 3DS should be doing far better.

The 3DS has the other handhelds in their maturity to fight with. Especially in Japan (which is what these charts are addressing), where the PSP does essentially what the 3DS does (delivering console-esque titles in handheld form) for less and with a far broader library at the moment.



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Mr Khan said:
Smashchu2 said:
Mr Khan said:
 

So we're holding new handhelds to higher standards than others historically.

Gotcha

The DS had a worse line up of Games than the 3DS and had very strong compition from the PSP. It was thought that Sony would take the handheld market. The 3DS has Nintendogs (the sequel to the system that made the DS) is selling to a warm market and has no compeition. By all of this, the 3DS should be doing far better.

The 3DS has the other handhelds in their maturity to fight with. Especially in Japan (which is what these charts are addressing), where the PSP does essentially what the 3DS does (delivering console-esque titles in handheld form) for less and with a far broader library at the moment.

Maturity means less sales. Consoles peak in their 3rd year, which the PSP is long since past.

But you said it yourself. Maybe there is no reason to buy a 3DS when the PSP does the same thing cheaper. Maybe the 3DS will just flop as people buy PSPs instead.



Smashchu2 said:
Mr Khan said:

The 3DS has the other handhelds in their maturity to fight with. Especially in Japan (which is what these charts are addressing), where the PSP does essentially what the 3DS does (delivering console-esque titles in handheld form) for less and with a far broader library at the moment.

Maturity means less sales. Consoles peak in their 3rd year, which the PSP is long since past.

But you said it yourself. Maybe there is no reason to buy a 3DS when the PSP does the same thing cheaper. Maybe the 3DS will just flop as people buy PSPs instead.

In Japan, for the moment. It's obvious 3DS will be getting the kind of titles PSP gets, and PSP support will diminish over time, then 3DS will have the edge the PSP currently has over the NGP: a rounder library of similar intent and cheaper in all likelihood

Which is again where this argument fails. It's snapshot mentality



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Smashchu2 said:
Mr Khan said:
Smashchu2 said:
Mr Khan said:
 

So we're holding new handhelds to higher standards than others historically.

Gotcha

The DS had a worse line up of Games than the 3DS and had very strong compition from the PSP. It was thought that Sony would take the handheld market. The 3DS has Nintendogs (the sequel to the system that made the DS) is selling to a warm market and has no compeition. By all of this, the 3DS should be doing far better.

The 3DS has the other handhelds in their maturity to fight with. Especially in Japan (which is what these charts are addressing), where the PSP does essentially what the 3DS does (delivering console-esque titles in handheld form) for less and with a far broader library at the moment.

Maturity means less sales. Consoles peak in their 3rd year, which the PSP is long since past.

But you said it yourself. Maybe there is no reason to buy a 3DS when the PSP does the same thing cheaper. Maybe the 3DS will just flop as people buy PSPs instead.

Unless you have one you can't understand why people would buy one. Nor would you understand it's immense potential and future appeal to a broad mass. You're underestimating it and I believe sales in the short future (next Fall/Christmas) will prove you wrong.

The N64 has a bad stigma because when it came out, Nintendo was in the worst position in its history with regards to 3rd parties and had price issues with its cartriges (price and 3rd party support, the two real areas of concern ATM to be honest). When the DS came out, Mario 64 DS did remarkably well, and I believe is still selling. At 9.08 M sold worldwide, that's hardly a fail for an N64 port. It pushed what it could, but it's as you agree the touch generation games and the DS Lite that really pushed the DS to the masses. Now I believe OoT has an even greater appeal than Mario 64 DS, and this time it's not just a port, it's a full remake in full 3D. You have to consider these differences when making your arguments. I'll predict that OoT will sell very well in America, well in Europe, and mildly well in Japan. The e-store is out very soon, and people can be excited about it. But again, to understand this, you need to have a 3DS, and from your comments I'm almost positive you don't. It makes it easier to argue when you're spent some time with the hardware. The thing is appealing.



o_O.Q said:

lol this guy is basically saying if nintendo doesn't come out with the types of games he prefers then they will fail

More like if it's not those mass market games that will please investors, then it will fail (which, actually, is true only if you look at it in the long run).



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huaxiong90 said:
o_O.Q said:

lol this guy is basically saying if nintendo doesn't come out with the types of games he prefers then they will fail

More like if it's not those mass market games that will please investors, then it will fail (which, actually, is true only if you look at it in the long run).

I guess that's what happened to PS360. Or... those are doing considerably well because they went after the serious, interested gamers. That's obviously what Nintendo needs to join into (to a varying degree at the very least), and saying the contrary is a total lack of insight. I'm not saying you, but the OP and some supporting views are really showing lack of insight in what Nintendo should do to succeed in the future. It's my honest opinion.