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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Project Cafe/3DS and the abandoning of the consumer

Mr Khan on 02 May 2011
Smashchu2 said:
Mr Khan said:

Ah, but they did *not* do it with the DS in its earliest weeks, as proven by that chart. Aside from that third week bounce, those numbers are nothing to brag about against 3DSes, slightly better at a level that is negligible

Or are we looking at two very different charts?

As I've said before, the 3DS should be doing BETTER. It's not. Heck, even still, people are buying the 6 year old PSP over the new 3DS. The DS was able to do well because of games like Nintendogs and New Super Mario Bros. Nintendogs is already on the 3DS and DS owners are not upgrading. DS owners do not want a 3DS. There also isn't a 2D Mario in sight. The only saving grace is Mario Kart and Animal Crossing, but if Nintendogs did not help, then why would these games?

The DS had a weak launch for many reasons but mostly due to launching with an N64 game. The system starting doing well when it made games that were like NES and SNES games as well as new games (Brain Age, Nintendogs). The 3DS will soon have OoT which will also not help the system. Time will tell, but DS owners are looking to not upgrade and they will reject the value of 3D. This is more serious then people think because Nintendo's handheld market has been tarnished.

So we're holding new handhelds to higher standards than others historically.

Gotcha



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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pablogers on 03 May 2011

The last nintendo console i had was the snes... so if they return to that roots, where the real gamer was the center of the console, i will probably buy cafe and ps4.

It is important to understand wii as a toy console, and ps3 and 360 like hardcore consoles... it is not stupid to think that nintendo can fulfill the "toy gamer" with games for the cafe that are also for the wii (like ps3 games that are in ps2 also).



Smashchu2 on 03 May 2011
padib said:
Smashchu2 said:
As I've said before, the 3DS should be doing BETTER. It's not. Heck, even still, people are buying the 6 year old PSP over the new 3DS. The DS was able to do well because of games like Nintendogs and New Super Mario Bros. Nintendogs is already on the 3DS and DS owners are not upgrading. DS owners do not want a 3DS. There also isn't a 2D Mario in sight. The only saving grace is Mario Kart and Animal Crossing, but if Nintendogs did not help, then why would these games?

The DS had a weak launch for many reasons but mostly due to launching with an N64 game. The system starting doing well when it made games that were like NES and SNES games as well as new games (Brain Age, Nintendogs). The 3DS will soon have OoT which will also not help the system. Time will tell, but DS owners are looking to not upgrade and they will reject the value of 3D. This is more serious then people think because Nintendo's handheld market has been tarnished.

It's way too soon to jump to those conclusion. There are way more factors than 3D that people could be rejecting (price, battery life, not enough games), and it's possible (most likely) that this is just temporary.

Also, how do you know OoT will not help the system? Were you there at launch in the near future?

All of those things you mentioned are a problem with the system and a problem with 3D. The battery life is bad because of #D. The price is high because of 3D. Games are bad because 3D is harder to make (but there was Nintendogs so "lack of hit software" is obviously not a problem).

The reason OoT wont help is because N64 games have never worked out for Nintendo. The DS launched with Mario 64 and sales were low. It was being beaten by the PSP. What saved the DS was SNES games and new games like Nintendogs and New Super Mario Bros. Launching another N64 game is only going to solidify it's possition as a weak system and put Nintendo in the worst possition it's ever been it: a bad economic market with no handheld market to back it up.

Nintendo will not be able to re-brand itself like they did with the DS because it is marketed as "3D." The 3DS will forever be about 3D and drive away customers (which is already happening. 3D gives people headachs amd they dont want to play 3D games). Nintendo will have to abandon the system in order to rebrand itself.



Smashchu2 on 03 May 2011
Mr Khan said:
Smashchu2 said:
Mr Khan said:
 

Ah, but they did *not* do it with the DS in its earliest weeks, as proven by that chart. Aside from that third week bounce, those numbers are nothing to brag about against 3DSes, slightly better at a level that is negligible

Or are we looking at two very different charts?

As I've said before, the 3DS should be doing BETTER. It's not. Heck, even still, people are buying the 6 year old PSP over the new 3DS. The DS was able to do well because of games like Nintendogs and New Super Mario Bros. Nintendogs is already on the 3DS and DS owners are not upgrading. DS owners do not want a 3DS. There also isn't a 2D Mario in sight. The only saving grace is Mario Kart and Animal Crossing, but if Nintendogs did not help, then why would these games?

The DS had a weak launch for many reasons but mostly due to launching with an N64 game. The system starting doing well when it made games that were like NES and SNES games as well as new games (Brain Age, Nintendogs). The 3DS will soon have OoT which will also not help the system. Time will tell, but DS owners are looking to not upgrade and they will reject the value of 3D. This is more serious then people think because Nintendo's handheld market has been tarnished.

So we're holding new handhelds to higher standards than others historically.

Gotcha

The DS had a worse line up of Games than the 3DS and had very strong compition from the PSP. It was thought that Sony would take the handheld market. The 3DS has Nintendogs (the sequel to the system that made the DS) is selling to a warm market and has no compeition. By all of this, the 3DS should be doing far better.



Mr Khan on 03 May 2011
Smashchu2 said:
Mr Khan said:

So we're holding new handhelds to higher standards than others historically.

Gotcha

The DS had a worse line up of Games than the 3DS and had very strong compition from the PSP. It was thought that Sony would take the handheld market. The 3DS has Nintendogs (the sequel to the system that made the DS) is selling to a warm market and has no compeition. By all of this, the 3DS should be doing far better.

The 3DS has the other handhelds in their maturity to fight with. Especially in Japan (which is what these charts are addressing), where the PSP does essentially what the 3DS does (delivering console-esque titles in handheld form) for less and with a far broader library at the moment.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Smashchu2 on 03 May 2011
Mr Khan said:
Smashchu2 said:
Mr Khan said:
 

So we're holding new handhelds to higher standards than others historically.

Gotcha

The DS had a worse line up of Games than the 3DS and had very strong compition from the PSP. It was thought that Sony would take the handheld market. The 3DS has Nintendogs (the sequel to the system that made the DS) is selling to a warm market and has no compeition. By all of this, the 3DS should be doing far better.

The 3DS has the other handhelds in their maturity to fight with. Especially in Japan (which is what these charts are addressing), where the PSP does essentially what the 3DS does (delivering console-esque titles in handheld form) for less and with a far broader library at the moment.

Maturity means less sales. Consoles peak in their 3rd year, which the PSP is long since past.

But you said it yourself. Maybe there is no reason to buy a 3DS when the PSP does the same thing cheaper. Maybe the 3DS will just flop as people buy PSPs instead.



Mr Khan on 03 May 2011
Smashchu2 said:
Mr Khan said:

The 3DS has the other handhelds in their maturity to fight with. Especially in Japan (which is what these charts are addressing), where the PSP does essentially what the 3DS does (delivering console-esque titles in handheld form) for less and with a far broader library at the moment.

Maturity means less sales. Consoles peak in their 3rd year, which the PSP is long since past.

But you said it yourself. Maybe there is no reason to buy a 3DS when the PSP does the same thing cheaper. Maybe the 3DS will just flop as people buy PSPs instead.

In Japan, for the moment. It's obvious 3DS will be getting the kind of titles PSP gets, and PSP support will diminish over time, then 3DS will have the edge the PSP currently has over the NGP: a rounder library of similar intent and cheaper in all likelihood

Which is again where this argument fails. It's snapshot mentality



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

huaxiong90 on 03 May 2011
o_O.Q said:

lol this guy is basically saying if nintendo doesn't come out with the types of games he prefers then they will fail

More like if it's not those mass market games that will please investors, then it will fail (which, actually, is true only if you look at it in the long run).



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

huaxiong90 on 03 May 2011
padib said:
huaxiong90 said:
o_O.Q said:

lol this guy is basically saying if nintendo doesn't come out with the types of games he prefers then they will fail

More like if it's not those mass market games that will please investors, then it will fail (which, actually, is true only if you look at it in the long run).

I guess that's what happened to PS360. Or... those are doing considerably well because they went after the serious, interested gamers. That's obviously what Nintendo needs to join into (to a varying degree at the very least), and saying the contrary is a total lack of insight. I'm not saying you, but the OP and some supporting views are really showing lack of insight in what Nintendo should do to succeed in the future. It's my honest opinion.


I'm not against the idea of trying to establish mass market franchises. But I also don't support the notion that a company should rid itselves of "hardcore" games either. It's all about balancing between the two.

I'm basically stating the obvious, but the OP doesn't seem to care about catering to everyone's tastes. Seriously, the minute games become all about trying to hit widespread appeal (and in turn limiting the creativity of a developer) is the minute I will quit gaming.



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!