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Project Cafe/3DS and the abandoning of the consumer

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Project Cafe/3DS and the abandoning of the consumer

axt113 said:

No need to counter, look at the sales of the 3DS, what is happening in reality is the best argument of them all

Even by the standards of "GameCube style" thinking, 3DS doesn't have much worth selling the hardware. Nintendo was in a state of early-PS3 style arrogance to believe that they could sell the thing without major titles, but at the same time weren't entirely wrong (they just greatly overestimated the amount of units you could push thus)

Nintendo's not going to make the same mistake with a console unless their arrogance has clouded them entirely, since they've been known to play it a little looser with handhelds (and remember DS launched with a glorified port as well, and where it went)

Time is needed, time to see what sort of games Nintendo has planned in the long haul (which should become apparent at E3 as to which direction they're going to pursue as far as 3DS development is concerned), and time to see how the market receives the device when it starts getting real distinctive software period



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Mr Khan said:
Smashchu2 said:
Mr Khan said:

These Malstrom inspired unfoundedly negative threads are giving me migraines. Cherry pick a few games and statistics, declare that this defines Nintendo's entire direction, then declare doom

It's just as asinine as the people earlier in the generation who cherry-picked Nintendo's casual moves and declared that they abandoned the core. It's the same damn thing just from a different perspective

What statistics are they cherry picking? Is it that Net income is down 66%. Is it that Sony has more games in the top 15 in Japan since the DS launched (9 to 8). Is it the one where the 3DS is selling below expectations. Or maybe the one where Nintendogs did not being in Wii customers and is not selling anywhere near the first one. Or maybe the one where the PSP is outselling the 3DS.

and where does the tale of the DS itself factor into all of this? Taking a snapshot of the market and using it to make declarations of broader trends is cherry-picking at its core

Cherry picking is selective attention. it would be looking at a few things and ignoring the rest. But I was easily able to come up with many things that are going wrong and showing this system is doing poorly. I have yet to hear why this system is doing well. But you mentioned the DS, so let's look at it.

The DS had a worse line up of Games than the 3DS and had very strong compition from the PSP. It was thought that Sony would take the handheld market. The 3DS has Nintendogs (the sequel to the system that made the DS) is selling to a warm market and has no compeition. By all of this, the 3DS should be doing far better.

There are far to many stats to show that this isn't doing well. But how about we look at the sales charts.



axt113 said:

No need to counter, look at the sales of the 3DS, what is happening in reality is the best argument of them all


How does the fact that the 3DS is selling slightly below expectations due to high price, a gimmick that people don't want (3D) and lack of compelling content from Nintendo exept for casual or oldschool gamers (which is a deliberate move by Nintendo to try and make a more favorable market for 3rd parties) not to mention so many god damn ports counter anything I have said? 

It counters your argument if anything...

Nintendo has traditionally been very holliday heavy anyway and we won't really know how the 3DS is doing untill the holidays.

So are you even going to try? 



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

zarx said:
axt113 said:

No need to counter, look at the sales of the 3DS, what is happening in reality is the best argument of them all


How does the fact that the 3DS is selling slightly below expectations due to high price, a gimmick that people don't want (3D) and lack of compelling content from Nintendo exept for casual or oldschool gamers (which is a deliberate move by Nintendo to try and make a more favorable market for 3rd parties) not to mention so many god damn ports counter anything I have said?

It counters your argument if anything...

Nintendo has traditionally been very holliday heavy anyway and we won't really know how the 3DS is doing untill the holidays.

So are you even going to try?


How does it counter my argument at all?  Casual and old school games, ROFL, the 3DS lineup is far from a casual and old school friendly lineup (Nintendogs and piltowings do not make it a casual friendly system), nothing you have said has disproved my argument that Nintendo is going in a wrong direction, and the sales completely support my argument.

I see no point in trying to refute your points when they really have no basis in reality and that assessment will be continued to be borne out in sales.



Smashchu2 said:
Mr Khan said:
Smashchu2 said:
Mr Khan said:

These Malstrom inspired unfoundedly negative threads are giving me migraines. Cherry pick a few games and statistics, declare that this defines Nintendo's entire direction, then declare doom

It's just as asinine as the people earlier in the generation who cherry-picked Nintendo's casual moves and declared that they abandoned the core. It's the same damn thing just from a different perspective

What statistics are they cherry picking? Is it that Net income is down 66%. Is it that Sony has more games in the top 15 in Japan since the DS launched (9 to 8). Is it the one where the 3DS is selling below expectations. Or maybe the one where Nintendogs did not being in Wii customers and is not selling anywhere near the first one. Or maybe the one where the PSP is outselling the 3DS.

and where does the tale of the DS itself factor into all of this? Taking a snapshot of the market and using it to make declarations of broader trends is cherry-picking at its core

Cherry picking is selective attention. it would be looking at a few things and ignoring the rest. But I was easily able to come up with many things that are going wrong and showing this system is doing poorly. I have yet to hear why this system is doing well. But you mentioned the DS, so let's look at it.

The DS had a worse line up of Games than the 3DS and had very strong compition from the PSP. It was thought that Sony would take the handheld market. The 3DS has Nintendogs (the sequel to the system that made the DS) is selling to a warm market and has no compeition. By all of this, the 3DS should be doing far better.

There are far to many stats to show that this isn't doing well. But how about we look at the sales charts.


That is Japan and the earthquake has had a large impact as well as the fact that DS was a holliday launch and had Warioware touched and Super Mario 64 DS. 



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

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Mr Khan said:
axt113 said:

No need to counter, look at the sales of the 3DS, what is happening in reality is the best argument of them all

Even by the standards of "GameCube style" thinking, 3DS doesn't have much worth selling the hardware. Nintendo was in a state of early-PS3 style arrogance to believe that they could sell the thing without major titles, but at the same time weren't entirely wrong (they just greatly overestimated the amount of units you could push thus)

Nintendo's not going to make the same mistake with a console unless their arrogance has clouded them entirely, since they've been known to play it a little looser with handhelds (and remember DS launched with a glorified port as well, and where it went)

Time is needed, time to see what sort of games Nintendo has planned in the long haul (which should become apparent at E3 as to which direction they're going to pursue as far as 3DS development is concerned), and time to see how the market receives the device when it starts getting real distinctive software period


Exactly there is not much worth to sell the 3DS, the problem, is that there is little sign that this will change in the future, while its true that the DS launched poorly, there were still brewings at the time of Nintendo's direction that would eventually result in the DS becoming a success, its expanded audience reach, its desire to battle disinterest in gaming, there is no such sign here, rather there is a sign that Nintendo is going in the direction of past mistakes (Contrary to belief, adding in a nintendogs game doesn;t make it a system that battles disinterest and expands the market, people's aren't stupid, they can undestand the direction a company is going in).

The market is clearly showing its lack of faith in the 3DS going forward,  and E3 will likely showthat this lack of faith is justified.



axt113 said:
Mr Khan said:
axt113 said:

No need to counter, look at the sales of the 3DS, what is happening in reality is the best argument of them all

Even by the standards of "GameCube style" thinking, 3DS doesn't have much worth selling the hardware. Nintendo was in a state of early-PS3 style arrogance to believe that they could sell the thing without major titles, but at the same time weren't entirely wrong (they just greatly overestimated the amount of units you could push thus)

Nintendo's not going to make the same mistake with a console unless their arrogance has clouded them entirely, since they've been known to play it a little looser with handhelds (and remember DS launched with a glorified port as well, and where it went)

Time is needed, time to see what sort of games Nintendo has planned in the long haul (which should become apparent at E3 as to which direction they're going to pursue as far as 3DS development is concerned), and time to see how the market receives the device when it starts getting real distinctive software period


Exactly there is not much worth to sell the 3DS, the problem, is that there is little sign that this will change in the future, while its true that the DS launched poorly, there were still brewings at the time of Nintendo's direction that would eventually result in the DS becoming a success, its expanded audience reach, its desire to battle disinterest in gaming, there is no such sign here, rather there is a sign that Nintendo is going in the direction of past mistakes (Contrary to belief, adding in a nintendogs game doesn;t make it a system that battles disinterest and expands the market, people's aren't stupid, they can undestand the direction a company is going in).

The market is clearly showing its lack of faith in the 3DS going forward,  and E3 will likely showthat this lack of faith is justified.

Compare the 3DS launch to the DS launch. Here is an article from 2004 listing DS launch titles:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6109936.html

Of note: Super Mario 64 DS, Metroi Prime: First Hunt (a demo), Picto-Chat (in the system) being the 1st-party offerings.

I think Pilotwings Resort and Nintendogs 3D are a tad stronger, wouldn't you think. If DS didn't fail with that crap, I see a bright future for the 3DS. Add to that the important nuance pointed out by zarx, that on top of that, Nintendo deliberately left a void in the 3DS 1st-party offerings to make room for 3rd parties, and that makes you worries completely out of whack.



axt113 said:
zarx said:
axt113 said:

No need to counter, look at the sales of the 3DS, what is happening in reality is the best argument of them all


How does the fact that the 3DS is selling slightly below expectations due to high price, a gimmick that people don't want (3D) and lack of compelling content from Nintendo exept for casual or oldschool gamers (which is a deliberate move by Nintendo to try and make a more favorable market for 3rd parties) not to mention so many god damn ports counter anything I have said?

It counters your argument if anything...

Nintendo has traditionally been very holliday heavy anyway and we won't really know how the 3DS is doing untill the holidays.

So are you even going to try?


How does it counter my argument at all?  Casual and old school games, ROFL, the 3DS lineup is far from a casual and old school friendly lineup, nothing you have said has disproved my argument that Nintendo is going in a wrong direction, and the sales completely support my argument.

I see no point in trying to refute your points when they really have no basis in reality and that assessment will be continued to be borne out in sales.


but all may aguments have data to back them up. 

So are you saying that Pilot wings, Nintendogs and a 2D fighting game are not casual or old school? They are all simple pick up and play games. 

lets look at Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas for a seccond a game that has sold over 25 million copies is a 3D sandbox one of the most complex genres in video games and Call of Duty: BO another 3D game that has sold over 25 million. Obviusly Nintendo should just make sandbox games, FPS' and sports themed minigame collections from now on because they sell the best obviusly they have been going in the wrong direction as these games sell the best...

See I can make your agrument as well

Also the origonal Super Mario Bros sold over 40 million New Super Mario Bros. Wii only managed 22 million obviusly 2D Mario sales are declining and Nintendo should be trying to find more successfull themes because at this rate sales will be below 3D mario...

minigame collections and Kart racers on the other hand have never sold better...

Oh I forgot you are really just but hurt that Nintendo aren't making the 2D marios and 8-bit games that you like.



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

Smashchu2 said:
Mr Khan said:
Smashchu2 said:
Mr Khan said:

These Malstrom inspired unfoundedly negative threads are giving me migraines. Cherry pick a few games and statistics, declare that this defines Nintendo's entire direction, then declare doom

It's just as asinine as the people earlier in the generation who cherry-picked Nintendo's casual moves and declared that they abandoned the core. It's the same damn thing just from a different perspective

What statistics are they cherry picking? Is it that Net income is down 66%. Is it that Sony has more games in the top 15 in Japan since the DS launched (9 to 8). Is it the one where the 3DS is selling below expectations. Or maybe the one where Nintendogs did not being in Wii customers and is not selling anywhere near the first one. Or maybe the one where the PSP is outselling the 3DS.

and where does the tale of the DS itself factor into all of this? Taking a snapshot of the market and using it to make declarations of broader trends is cherry-picking at its core

Cherry picking is selective attention. it would be looking at a few things and ignoring the rest. But I was easily able to come up with many things that are going wrong and showing this system is doing poorly. I have yet to hear why this system is doing well. But you mentioned the DS, so let's look at it.

The DS had a worse line up of Games than the 3DS and had very strong compition from the PSP. It was thought that Sony would take the handheld market. The 3DS has Nintendogs (the sequel to the system that made the DS) is selling to a warm market and has no compeition. By all of this, the 3DS should be doing far better.

There are far to many stats to show that this isn't doing well. But how about we look at the sales charts.


Here bud, let me help:



*Yawn*

Just you wait until Pokemon comes out. And Mario Kart. It'll be a done deal.



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