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Forums - General Discussion - Difference Between Liberals and Conservatives

Kasz216 on 09 April 2011

The claim is "American politicians are too conservative to be elected in Europe."

Therefore, yeah, involving eastern europe is totally justified.

Eastern Europe, I would say seems worse then the Southern States by a decent margin.  You can blame that on a lack of a centralzied government, but the fact remains the same.

There are plenty of holes in western europeons freedoms and liberal ideas that would also suggest that they aren't really any liberal then liberal US states, outside a few scandanavian countries.

For example, the Tories in power in England, are generally seen to be like Ronald Reagan.  Who at this point is too conservative to be elected in the US in many states.  The German and English Austerity plans would be outright rejected in states like NY, and California. 

Or another, the Italian Prime minister would of been forced to resign for his rampant sexism, in any state in the US.  Even Mississippi.

"France's tradtiion of secularism" sounds a lot like "conservative view to not allow freedom of religion."

Also, complaining that eastern europe is backwords socially because of decades of communism seems to support my point rather then oppose it.



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pizzahut451 on 14 April 2011
sapphi_snake said:

@Kasz216:

Everything actually.  If you know what liberalism actually is.

Are you reffering to classical liberalism? Who wants that?

Aside from that... that was a pretty weak defense.  Europe not being a country is a weak arguement when you consider the statement is always "He would be too conservative to be elected in europe".

Why is that a weak defense? Europe is not a country, it is a continent. If the EU will one day become a federal state, then you'll have an argument. I don't care what statement is. How exactly could he be elected "in Europe"? Europe doesn't have a leader that is elected by all the people living in Europe, so I don't see your point. It depends which country in Europe you're talking about.

Would Barak Obama not get elected in your country because he was too conservative?  Or because he was too liberal?

He would not get elected in my country because he's black, and because he's not Eastern Orthodox. Based on his political views, I think many here would like him.

Even in countries like France... would he not be elected becase of his "conservative" attitudes, or would he not be elected because of his stance on minorities?  He would abhor the new law that prevents people from wearing religious headgear into school, because we respect things like Freedom of religion here.

That has more to do with France's secular tradition then with their conservatism.

People are more anti-gay in the US then they are in Europe.  Really?  Your willing to say that, even from the country your in?

Isn't it true that the Europeon Union's pressure is basically the only reason your gay rights law stayed in effect?

It's very true and very sad that if it weren't for the EU homosexuals would have a significantly terrible life here in Romania. They still do, and the homophobes over here disgust me. It's really no different that the attitudes in your country a couple of decades ago, and probably not very different then the attitudes of some of your Southern states.

But Eastern Europe is backwards because of half a century of Communism. However you'd have to be dellusional to claim that your country is more tollerant toaward gays than Western Europe. Even the more conservative countries in that region are more tolerant of your country as a whole.

http://pewglobal.org/files/pdf/258.pdf

I've yet to see a study that shows Europe's attitude as a whole towards homosexuals, but overall it's at worst the same as in your country (due to the Eastern states).

As for stuff like opinions on abortion, i'd look at the various abortion laws, and also note the timelines needed to get an abortion.  The US actually is more forgiving in that regard.

Again, since Europe is not a country, a comparison is improper. I'd say the attitudes aren't negative as a whole. In my country most people agree with it, especially women.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6235557.stm

Since when do you defend anything related to your orgin and homeland? I mean, why would you defend Europe when YOU are from Europe? I tought you were agaisnt everything related to your ethnic orgin.



numonex on 14 April 2011

America is socially conservative. America does not embrace socialism: universal health care does not exist in the US and welfare pensions are limited in the US, inadequate public transport. America is a pure capitalist market economy and it has a corporate dictatorship with two factions.  

Europe is regarded as socially liberal and progressive. Europe embraces socialism: universal health care, universal education, public housing, good public transport systems. Europe is a combination of social democracy and conservative free market and liberal democracy. 

In both America and Europe governments are not at all fiscally conservative with their out of control public spending and growing deficits and growing unemployment rates. American governments are corrupt and bail out failing corporations too big too fail. Paranoid America government spends too much on defence to protect itself from possible threats but it is the biggest threat to every other nation. 



Garnett on 14 April 2011
ssj12 said:
NotStan said:

In UK & US, there is no difference.


fixed for you, there is no real difference. they act differently but they all want to grow government, push America's views upon the world, burn the constitution, give corporations civil rights, police its citizens, scare everyone to believe the way they do is for the citizen's safety or well-being, and basically support a fictitious democracy. 

I'm pretty sure all money "cut" from the budget will be put into the black budget to continue funding stupid worthless things.

Damn, everything you just said was the truth!  Couldn't of said it better myself.

"How could this be, the land of the free, home of the brave?
Indigenous holocaust, and the home of the slaves
Corporate America, dancin' offbeat to the rhythm
You really think this country, never sponsored terrorism?
Human rights violations, we continue the saga
El Savador and the contras in Nicaragua
And on top of that, you still wanna take me to prison
Just cause I won't trade humanity for patriotism"

 

"Democracy is just a word, when the people are starvin'

The average citizen, made to be, blind to the reason
A desert full of genocide, where the bodies are freezin'
And the world doesn't believe that you fightin' for freedom
Cause you fucked the Middle East, and gave birth to a demon"



*Remember when the world was supposed to end on May 21st, 2011? Well click here to see our short parody video of it [not]ending*

numonex on 15 April 2011

http://www.polipsych.com/2007/09/30/cognitive-moral-relativism-vs-moral-absolutism-in-liberals-and-conservatives/

liberals think more about the common good of the largest social units — the nation and the whole world, whereas conservatives are more focused on the health of local institutions and communities.



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Kasz216 on 15 April 2011
numonex said:

http://www.polipsych.com/2007/09/30/cognitive-moral-relativism-vs-moral-absolutism-in-liberals-and-conservatives/

liberals think more about the common good of the largest social units — the nation and the whole world, whereas conservatives are more focused on the health of local institutions and communities.

University of Virginia.  Interesting.  Don't know much about their psych program.

There actual surveys could use a good deal of reworking though... as some of their questions are just very poorly worded.

 

Hah, I apparently reject all moral foundations more then both liberals and conservatives... except for fairness.

What that's supposed to mean I don't know.

Purity and Authority are almost at 0.

Loyalty is low too... which is amusing because loyalty means a whole lot to me.

I just view being loyal to yourself as the most important form of loyalty.

 

Hah,but apparently I value all of the foundations more then Liberals and Conservatives.  Except Authority and Purity.

That is... funny if nothing else.



Rath on 15 April 2011
Kasz216 said:
numonex said:

http://www.polipsych.com/2007/09/30/cognitive-moral-relativism-vs-moral-absolutism-in-liberals-and-conservatives/

liberals think more about the common good of the largest social units — the nation and the whole world, whereas conservatives are more focused on the health of local institutions and communities.

University of Virginia.  Interesting.  Don't know much about their psych program.

There actual surveys could use a good deal of reworking though... as some of their questions are just very poorly worded.

 

Hah, I apparently reject all moral foundations more then both liberals and conservatives... except for fairness.

What that's supposed to mean I don't know.

Purity and Authority are almost at 0.

Loyalty is low too... which is amusing because loyalty means a whole lot to me.

I just view being loyal to yourself as the most important form of loyalty.

 

Hah,but apparently I value all of the foundations more then Liberals and Conservatives.  Except Authority and Purity.

That is... funny if nothing else.

 

Heh. I'm just an exagerrated liberal.

 

(Quiz is at http://www.yourmorals.org/ for those wondering)

 

Edit: And fairness would be high for a libertarian. Means you believe all people should have equal liberties I think...

Also the "It's wrong to ever kill a human being" question got me. I think the death penalty is wrong but euthanasia is right, they both kind of come under the same question.



Kasz216 on 15 April 2011
Rath said:
Kasz216 said:
numonex said:

http://www.polipsych.com/2007/09/30/cognitive-moral-relativism-vs-moral-absolutism-in-liberals-and-conservatives/

liberals think more about the common good of the largest social units — the nation and the whole world, whereas conservatives are more focused on the health of local institutions and communities.

University of Virginia.  Interesting.  Don't know much about their psych program.

There actual surveys could use a good deal of reworking though... as some of their questions are just very poorly worded.

 

Hah, I apparently reject all moral foundations more then both liberals and conservatives... except for fairness.

What that's supposed to mean I don't know.

Purity and Authority are almost at 0.

Loyalty is low too... which is amusing because loyalty means a whole lot to me.

I just view being loyal to yourself as the most important form of loyalty.

 

Hah,but apparently I value all of the foundations more then Liberals and Conservatives.  Except Authority and Purity.

That is... funny if nothing else.

 

Heh. I'm just an exagerrated liberal.

 

(Quiz is at http://www.yourmorals.org/ for those wondering)

 

Edit: And fairness would be high for a libertarian. Means you believe all people should have equal liberties I think...

Also the "It's wrong to ever kill a human being" question got me. I think the death penalty is wrong but euthanasia is right, they both kind of come under the same question.


You've got to take into consideration Self Defense as well.  My fairness didn't score that high either.

 

Is mine.  Which is funny compaired to

 



Kasz216 on 15 April 2011

Although... that might just be explained by the fact that I set a higher standard for myself then I do others.


Or just the first quiz being confusing.  Couldn't tell what they wanted to ask and i'm a Psych graduate.



Rath on 15 April 2011

 

We're kinda similar on this one.