krik said: Yojimbo said: leo-j said: They will never take the wii seriously, look at the 3rd party attach rate on the wii compared to the ps3. PS3 does not have good attach rate.    Says who? If we get the last 2 big third party games AC and Cod4 we see that AC sold:  360 = 1,940K and the PS3 = 1,130K http://vgchartz.com/swlaunch.php?reg1=All&game1=Assassins+Creed+-+X360&reg2=All&game2=Assassins+Creed+-+PS3&reg3=All&game3=&weeks=100  and CoD4 sold: 360 = 2,251K and the PS3 = 1,010K http://vgchartz.com/swlaunch.php?reg1=All&game1=Call+of+Duty+4%3A+Modern+Warfare+-+X360&reg2=All&game2=Call+of+Duty+4%3A+Modern+Warfare+-+PS3&reg3=All&game3=&weeks=100    Since 360 has about 2x the user base of the PS3 this numbers show about the same attach rate. So I'm not sure where you getting your numbers from, but it surely can't be from VGC.

this couldn't be more of an obvious answer..... The 360 owners have gobs of great games to choose from, PS3 owners have less good titles to choose from, so a large percentage of owners buy the good titles that get released. They just don't have the same selection of quality titles available (yet) that the 360 does. And as far as the Wii goes, no developer has had time to deliver the quality of titles as Nintendo, the believers 13 months ago were almost non existant. The only games that can pop up out of thin air are the shovelware titles and the ports. As the user base grows and the third party titles see success, more naysayers will eat a lot of crow, and realize they are missing out on a huge amount of potential revenue.The good games have started, lots more are coming. Wait until new developers pop up with Wii Ware, they might school some of the larger third parties on how the Wiimote can be used.

Aj_habfan said: Avinash_Tyagi said: HappySqurriel said: Aj_habfan said: You could have had those games, but Nintendo chose to give you a cheaper console. You can't have everything, even though you think you deserve it. I know ... What was I thinking, lower performance systems like the PS2 never saw games like Gran Theft Auto produced for them. After all, the Wii is lucky to get a game more advanced than pong ...    lol, yeah there is no way a system like Wii can have enough power to run the top rated games of all time...oh wait   Actually, it's true. For most of these new games, it would take more then a port to bring it to the Wii, they would have to redo the whole thing. PS2 was very lucky because most games were developed for it first, then brought to other consoles. If GTA 4 was made for the Wii it could be easily brought over, making you think it was as able as the other ones, like which you think about PS2.

 So why bring GTA 4, bring a new GTA, Wii has more than enough power its just devs know they can't compete with Nitnendo unless they improve

Renar said: Avinash_Tyagi said: Renar said: @ endurance Hopefully the support will be better support as well. I disagree with Avinash somewhat, in that to say 3rd party are lazy for the Wii and not for the PS3 or X360, I don't think is true. Think of it as a sport event, say football (either one, both work for the example). Put the college team up against the pro team. Who wins? The pros. Is it because the college team is lazy? No, they can play their hearts out, but just that their talent and experience just aren't at the same level as the pros. When the Wii sales get noticability higher than the other 2, (smarter) 3rd parties will shift their better development teams to the Wii. Closer to Nintendo standard of games will come out, and the 3rd party sales will improve as well.  Oh I think they are lazy on PS3 and 360 as well, its just that the standards are lower since there is no developer like Nintendo to compete with on a 360 or a PS3, so its much easier for a third party game to get its foot in the door then it would be on a Nintendo console If they are as 'lazy' on the PS3 and 360 as well, then their companies should start to fire some of their 'lazy' employees, when it costs $15-30M+ to get a game out for them.  But I have to disagree, since ultimately it is the buying public that decides what standards should be met and what those standards are.  That is, what makes it fun and worth wanting to play.  Enough X360 and PS3 3rd parties games are selling well, which says that those standards can be met.  Which is why I maintain that Wii right now gets the 2nd lvl teams to develope games.  When 3rd parties see that Wii games done with flair that captures the Wii gamers fancy, make a ton of money, then they will shift their priorities.  Some are doing that now.  The question is, will they do it correctly?  Or just make very nice games that the Wii gamers don't care that much for?

 the third party games on PS3 and 360 are selling well because of the lack of competition, like I said there is no developer like Nintendo to compete with, so a rehash  can sell well on the PS3 or 360 while it wouldn't sell as well on the Wii because why buy a rehashed third party title when you can buy mario galaxy which you know is going to be amazing

Well, if the Wii follows the route of the DS, then I would say when the Wii has about a 40M install base next year.

Since it is not there yet, you don't see Call of Duty 4 or Assassins Creed on the Wii, but you do see them on the DS.

DonWii said: Well, if the Wii follows the route of the DS, then I would say when the Wii has about a 40M install base next year. Since it is not there yet, you don't see Call of Duty 4 or Assassins Creed on the Wii, but you do see them on the DS.

 That is very true.

 

Anyways, all that Wii needs is for one 3rd party developer to make the leap and put out their top teams and resources (obviously don't put the company on it but you get what i mean) and try to make a new IP, or a new game suitable for the Wii. They need to make a creative and innovative take on some kind of genre, couple it with great gameplay and make the controls work for Wii. Then they'd have to spend lots of time on Graphics. But they can't just buy polygons. Because Wii is graphically inferior to its competition they need to focus on talent and art style, something that the Industry was slowly loosing. And, for the sake of reluctant developers the game would have to be "mature" in a sense, or revolve around an epic story and not like casual games.

 Once they do that, the game will get lots of backing from the non-casual gamers (and some casual gamers as well) and it will hopefully sell a million or millions if its lucky. With that, developer (seeing the sucess of the game) would be flocking to Wii, or if not, you have the one-developer-who-dared making millions and owning that portion of the Wii market. 

The notion that Wii third party games don't sell well is a total myth. They've sold quite well from the very launch of the system to the present. Not "sell well considering they're low-quality games", just sell well period. Let's compare Wii third party sales to PS3 third party sales; after all, both consoles launched at exactly the same time.

Wii Million Sellers (4)
Mario and Sonic (1.46m)
Resident Evil 4 (1.18m)
Rayman Raving Rabbids (1.17m)
Red Steel (1.03m)
(Guitar Hero 3 is at 0.99m, but I'll be nice and not count it!)

PS3 Million Sellers (2)
Call of Duty 4 (1.15m)
Assassin's Creed (1.13m)

Looks like the Wii is doing much better there. How about 500k sellers?

Wii 500k Sellers (11)
Mario and Sonic (1.46m)
Resident Evil 4 (1.18m)
Rayman Raving Rabbids (1.17m)
Red Steel (1.03m)
Guitar Hero 3 (990k)
Sonic and the Secret Rings (790k)
Tiger Woods 07 (750k)
Cooking Mama (550k)
My Sims (550k)
Trauma Center (510k)
Umbrella Chronicles (500k)
Total: 9.48m

PS3 500k Sellers (10)
Call of Duty 4 (1.15m)
Assassin's Creed (1.13m)
FIFA 08 (800k)
Pro Evo 2008 (670k)
Need for Speed Carbon (640k)
Ridge Racer 7 (610k)
Need for Speed Prostreet (600k)
Madden 08 (580k)
Oblivion (550k)
Call of Duty 3 (530k)
Total: 7.26m

Not as dominant, true, but certainly no worse than the PS3 has done. Even though the Wii third party efforts have obviously been much worse than their PS3 counterparts, the Wii has actually done better in overall sales. And that's ignoring the fact that Nintendo has NINE first-party million sellers! (Sony only has two.)

Contrary to what its detractors would like to believe, the Wii moves a lot of software. Not just Nintendo software either - it sells games, period. Most third parties have done quite well, although you'd never get that impression from reading Internet message boards. Overall, I've seen absolutely nothing to indicate that the Wii won't follow the DS's lifetime trend for third party support, which goes something like this:

Year 1: almost entirely first party
Year 2: some third party support
Year 3: majority of third party support

For the DS, those years were 2005/06/07. For the Wii, it will be 2007/08/09. It has nothing to do with fanboyism; this is a business, and third parties must support the platform with the largest install base to make money. We watched the early stages of this play out in 2007, and we'll see it further develop over the next two years.

If I had to wager a guess based on current trends... never...

Honestly I think if the Wii continues to sell well, 3rd parties are going to HAVE to take the Wii seriously. Unfortunately with success comes shovelware, but eventually with the continously rising cost of development, and the falling profits of most developers (barring a few) they will be forced to whore out their IP's even more, meaning all games on all platforms if it can be ported cheap enough to show a profit. No matter what stupid company exec's may say, they are still a business and public businesses (where people buy shares of the company) will end up having no choice but to invest in the top console, irregardless of what some fanboy for this console or that console wants.

Overall I think they were just suprised to see the success of the Wii, and are simply late to the game, they had to go through this year, and this holiday to see how things turned out, so we will see things changing sooner now, rather than later.

Vizion said: Wouldn't it be nice to see high quality games like Bioshock, Grand Theft Auto 4 and Call of Duty 4 on the Wii?

 The best versions of Godfather and Scarface are on the Wii.  Those are high quality games.  The best version of the 2005 game of the year, RE4, is on the Wii.  Mario and Sonic at the Olympics is the best 3rd party console party game ever made.   The Wii has been proven- it can have high quality 3rd party ports :) No seriously, just give it time.  Wii owns Japan and is the major foce in every other major market.  If you build it... 

 

double post--