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Against the grain: Why do we Europeans hate RPG's?

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Against the grain: Why do we Europeans hate RPG's?

A203D said:
hikaruchan said:
 

Europeans don't like Cutscene heavy Games MGS says HI. 

I'm talking about RPGs. MG is an established series, since the NES/SNES. and MGS is a tactical action game. the cutscenes are also very different. what other game as Kojima made that has been met with the same success??

point being its an action game, it talks to the users in a lanuage they understand, RPGs are more complex in that respect. the vast amount of cutscenes suppliment the fear they have of the game being boring.

i'm not saying you cant have a lot of cutscenes in RPGs, i'm saying its a combination of cutscenes, gameplay, characters, voice acting that people here in Europe dont trust JRPGs.

but there is a small and loyal fanbase, for games like Valkyria Chronicles, or people who watch anime. European gamers dont play games for cutscenes. eg GTA, how many people do you think actully finish it or even play it. loads of people just buy it so they can drive around, play a few missions, mess about with the guns, put it back on the shelf.

so in RPGs cutscenes are only part of problem, because gamers dont know what to expect, with MGS everyone knows what it is. besides, MGS's sales declined and never recovered after the 4th installment MGS2.



I belive it's the same case for America just the niche is bigger due to more anime fans and more exposure to jrpg games in previous generations.



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DarkintheLight said:

Seems to me Sony is your only chance of getting any rpgs, they tend to try harder in the rest of the world 


QFT !

I am playing Demon's Souls by now and it's a blast. I don't really like Sony's mercantile bad choices, but I have to admit that at last, they broaden there audience and they don't leave the third parties on the side of the road when it comes to niche games.

I don't understand why the support MH3 with Capcom, but no love with the Last Story or Arc Rise Fantasia. I do think Ninty doesn't care about Europe but for the euro/yen rate, it's a bad mistake considering the large success of WRPGs in Europe lately (Bioware's, Bethesda's, CD Projekt Red's) and MMORPGs.

About translation costs : To be honest, my japanese teacher used to be paid for translation, the rates were quite high (60€ per page). I do think the translation costs are just a bad excuse regarding game development cost, and it's the kind of thing that should have been thought at the genesis of the game to avoid such situation.

Profit alone can't explain ninty giving up the RPG genre, they are just creating more and more hate in the hardcore crowd who are shifting to other platform for their RPG fix (such as me !!!).

 

 




Europe loves RPGs. Just not console RPG's why?.. well it's what millions of gamers have been bitching at for the last decade. JRPG are linear stories. If you have fun with them then AWESOME. If you don't which is a fair amount of the population and seemingly including a steady increase in Japan with the exception of a few big brands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_(video_game)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Witcher_(video_game)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount&Blade  (it's single plater campaign is pure war rpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Divinity

I could go search out for more, but that's on the situation. JRPG have already reached a stale point in Europe. They just aren't interactive enough nor provide any significant depth outside of a good story. There is of course a market, but it's not big enough for companies to feel that they should bother... yes they should, but that's another story. Yes there is a circlular cycle. Heck the Wii has faced that a couple months. Simple Game X sells loads, remake X as a shitty game and doesn't sell. Bitch about lack of sales. Make shittier game.

If Japan wan'ts to make games for Europe then they need to not make JRPG or make something special about it to attract attention. Otherwise Europe still loves RPG's.



Squilliam: On Vgcharts its a commonly accepted practice to twist the bounds of plausibility in order to support your argument or agenda so I think its pretty cool that this gives me the precedent to say whatever I damn well please.

A203D said:
hikaruchan said:
 

Europeans don't like Cutscene heavy Games MGS says HI. 

I'm talking about RPGs. MG is an established series, since the NES/SNES. and MGS is a tactical action game. the cutscenes are also very different. what other game as Kojima made that has been met with the same success??

point being its an action game, it talks to the users in a lanuage they understand, RPGs are more complex in that respect. the vast amount of cutscenes suppliment the fear they have of the game being boring.

i'm not saying you cant have a lot of cutscenes in RPGs, i'm saying its a combination of cutscenes, gameplay, characters, voice acting that people here in Europe dont trust JRPGs.

but there is a small and loyal fanbase, for games like Valkyria Chronicles, or people who watch anime. European gamers dont play games for cutscenes. eg GTA, how many people do you think actully finish it or even play it. loads of people just buy it so they can drive around, play a few missions, mess about with the guns, put it back on the shelf.

so in RPGs cutscenes are only part of problem, because gamers dont know what to expect, with MGS everyone knows what it is. besides, MGS's sales declined and never recovered after the 4th installment MGS2.



Kojima Hideo san also did Snacher and Policenauts which are Adventure Games that are Cutscene Heavy but Policenauts did not make it out of Japan, also he did Zone of the Enders and Zone of The Enders 2.

and By The Way MGS4 Sold better then MGS3 which had the lowest sales for the series.

any way Back on topic yes JRPG a niche genre and when I say JRPG I mean every RPG from Japan not just Turn Based RPGs. but you have to remember that most JRPGs get little to no Marketing exposure in Europe which doesn't help maters regarding there niche status.

also see my other post for more.  

 

 

 

 



Japanese Pop Culture Otaku

Ninty consoles havent been getting that much RPGs since the SNES era, it got much worst when Square left that entire camp and went to PS1, i could count on two hands how much JRPGs  N64 got. PS1 got like 40???? thats just the US. I think it will be along time till we see an RPG library like SNES, we might never see it again on a Ninty console



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Generally RPGs have more text so I think its harder for them to be localised in Europe because of all the languages.



.jayderyu said:

Europe loves RPGs. Just not console RPG's why?.. well it's what millions of gamers have been bitching at for the last decade. JRPG are linear stories. If you have fun with them then AWESOME. If you don't which is a fair amount of the population and seemingly including a steady increase in Japan with the exception of a few big brands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_(video_game)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Witcher_(video_game)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount&Blade  (it's single plater campaign is pure war rpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Divinity

I could go search out for more, but that's on the situation. JRPG have already reached a stale point in Europe. They just aren't interactive enough nor provide any significant depth outside of a good story. There is of course a market, but it's not big enough for companies to feel that they should bother... yes they should, but that's another story. Yes there is a circlular cycle. Heck the Wii has faced that a couple months. Simple Game X sells loads, remake X as a shitty game and doesn't sell. Bitch about lack of sales. Make shittier game.

If Japan wan'ts to make games for Europe then they need to not make JRPG or make something special about it to attract attention. Otherwise Europe still loves RPG's.

Agree with much of this.

The thread titles doesn't specifiy JRPG yet nearly everyone in this thread is going on about them with barely a mention of traditional WRPGs which have always been successful in Europe as a relatively niche but popular genre. 

Games like the Ultima series, Betrayal at Krondor, the Might & Magic series, Fallout series, Elder Scrolls series, Baldurs Gate and Quest for Glory, Neverwinter Nights etc. have all done fairly well.

Europeans like RPGs, but they have traditionally liked a different type of RPG to JRPGs. I think the issue for JRPGs is that they have difficulty marketing when their are so many different cultural tastes. Europe's a mix of cultures and unless you have the might and experience of Square-Enix (or SCEE in the case of FFVII), it's very difficult to market them appropriately to every country in the EU.



Zkuq said:

I believe us Europeans don't regard JRPGs too highly, I believe most Europeans think they're boring or otherwise bad. They're mostly the same and when they're not, they're either too niche or the changes are bad.

But that's the issue. Why do we think this way? What have JRPG's done to cause this stigma to be attached to them, in the area where WoW is the most played?

@Tomatito- so true. But we need to receive them in the first place. Nintendo, are you listening!



 

Here lies the dearly departed Nintendomination Thread.

why arent any wrpgs listed???

booooooo!!

japanese games have a tendency not to come to the west thats it, it doesnt have anything to do with rpgs.



Being in 3rd place never felt so good

Most "good" JRPGs are either in small shipments so the price is insanely knocked up, see example;

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tales-of-Vesperia-Xbox-360/dp/B0021AERUQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1296812001&sr=8-1

 

Or they just plainly suck and there is not a big market for them. No offence but I find most of the JRPGs more of the same, the story is worse than in FPS in some cases, due to cheesy music, lame emo-like characters and constant whinging on the part. I liked Lost Odyssey, but that was an exception for some weird reason. There is only so much the western market can take of half naked chics with insanely large breasts running around and fighting a giant godzilla type of robot to save the universe. JRPGs are just too niche for the western market.



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