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Against the grain: Why do we Europeans hate RPG's?

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Against the grain: Why do we Europeans hate RPG's?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but CRPGs do and have always done fairly well in Europe, so it's not like the continent has rejected the genre.  But much like Japan prefers JRPGs to WRPGs, Europe prefers a different kind of RPG than the J version.



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It seems pretty silly to ask a question about Europeans liking RPGs and then focus on JRPGs and Nintendo.  Most JRPGs didn't even make it over to Europe until the Playstation.  Even then plenty of them only made it to North America or didn't even leave Japan.

This isn't really surprising though, there are a ton of different languages in Europe.  It's hard enough getting JRPGs released in the US and they only have to deal with English.



Chibi.V.29 said:
Conegamer said:
Chibi.V.29 said:

I have no idea why :/ i think that in a part of the world where a generic shooter is top there isnt much room for games that involve slow progression games which JRPG's quite often are. FF13 did prove though that its not impossible for JRPG's  sell insane numbers. But new IP's often fall flat :/ (though tales of grace does sometimes do very well)

Final Fantasy, as you say, is an established series. They always sell well, no matter the quality. The fact that new IP's sell very few numbers in the UK shows that there isn't a market there, and that most consumers are ignorant to the fact that the genre even exists

urh its so annoying :/ even half the people i know that get ff games dont even know there rpg's O.o 

Its a shame realy :/

the reason its been difficult for Europe to accept JRPGs is because gamers think RPGs are boring. western gamers want action - when FF13 was advertised, it only presented the cutscenes (in Europe anyway, with the Leonia Lewis song). this is completely the opposite to what western gamers want.

they want to see some action, people dont give a toss about cutscene driven games. they think its boring, repititive, tedious. they want something like Uncharted or God of War, where they can just pick it up and play it, they dont want to watch 10mins of cutscenes before they can play. thats not what western gamers want.

even though Mass Effect 2 has been well recieved, its no where near the level of sales of something like Assassin's Creed (a semi popular game), because its not ACCESSABLE. the premise of making someone interested in your game is  making it accessble. people want something they understand, easy to pick up and play.

the only JRPG that has a chance of doing this imo is The Last Story - because it evolves RPGs to the level of western developed games. the main draw of the game is gameplay - a real time battle system. people can understand and relate to that. the other thing is online, leting play a realtime game with your friends. this is my point where FF13 hasnt evolved the genre, it hasnt got more people buying RPGs, its returning fans just buying the 13th iteration.

but Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Demon's Souls and The Last Story will give RPGs a fighting chance in Europe where FF13 couldnt.



Seems to me Sony is your only chance of getting any rpgs, they tend to try harder in the rest of the world 



A203D said:
Chibi.V.29 said:
Conegamer said:
Chibi.V.29 said:

I have no idea why :/ i think that in a part of the world where a generic shooter is top there isnt much room for games that involve slow progression games which JRPG's quite often are. FF13 did prove though that its not impossible for JRPG's  sell insane numbers. But new IP's often fall flat :/ (though tales of grace does sometimes do very well)

Final Fantasy, as you say, is an established series. They always sell well, no matter the quality. The fact that new IP's sell very few numbers in the UK shows that there isn't a market there, and that most consumers are ignorant to the fact that the genre even exists

urh its so annoying :/ even half the people i know that get ff games dont even know there rpg's O.o 

Its a shame realy :/

the reason its been difficult for Europe to accept JRPGs is because gamers think RPGs are boring. western gamers want action - when FF13 was advertised, it only presented the cutscenes (in Europe anyway, with the Leonia Lewis song). this is completely the opposite to what western gamers want.

they want to see some action, people dont give a toss about cutscene driven games. they think its boring, repititive, tedious. they want something like Uncharted or God of War, where they can just pick it up and play it, they dont want to watch 10mins of cutscenes before they can play. thats not what western gamers want.

even though Mass Effect 2 has been well recieved, its no where near the level of sales of something like Assassin's Creed (a semi popular game), because its not ACCESSABLE. the premise of making someone interested in your game is  making it accessble. people want something they understand, easy to pick up and play.

the only JRPG that has a chance of doing this imo is The Last Story - because it evolves RPGs to the level of western developed games. the main draw of the game is gameplay - a real time battle system. people can understand and relate to that. the other thing is online, leting play a realtime game with your friends. this is my point where FF13 hasnt evolved the genre, it hasnt got more people buying RPGs, its returning fans just buying the 13th iteration.

but Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Demon's Souls and The Last Story will give RPGs a fighting chance in Europe where FF13 couldnt.

if the people in the UK dont like cut scene driven games they will hate the last story :P the game gives ff13 a run for its money the the sheer number and length of them. (i would know...i sat through everyone of them xD)

And ff13 sold incredibly in Europe ^^ 2.1 million isnt bad for a region where no one likes those kind of games ey

And its not just people buying the next literation etc ff12 sold 1.4 million europe so there are half a million new people  i highly doubt (actually garantee) tls would never sell 500k in europe let alone introduce that entire new audience ^^

Also though yes tls is a brilliant game like i said in my review it being real time isnt really that new :/ its been around forever xD 



Yeah i know my spelling sucks but im dysgraphic so live with it :3    

---------------------------------------------------Bets--------------------------------------------------

Conegamer - I say that the PS3 will beat the DS next week in Japan  (for hardware sales) Forfeit is control over others avatar for 1 week.

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Chibi.V.29 said:
Conegamer said:
Chibi.V.29 said:

I have no idea why :/ i think that in a part of the world where a generic shooter is top there isnt much room for games that involve slow progression games which JRPG's quite often are. FF13 did prove though that its not impossible for JRPG's  sell insane numbers. But new IP's often fall flat :/ (though tales of grace does sometimes do very well)

Final Fantasy, as you say, is an established series. They always sell well, no matter the quality. The fact that new IP's sell very few numbers in the UK shows that there isn't a market there, and that most consumers are ignorant to the fact that the genre even exists

urh its so annoying :/ even half the people i know that get ff games dont even know there rpg's O.o 

Its a shame realy :/

It is, sadly, you can't change the public image. You have to trust the developers to do that. You can only raise awareness...



 

Here lies the dearly departed Nintendomination Thread.

Chibi.V.29 said:
 

if the people in the UK dont like cut scene driven games they will hate the last story :P the game gives ff13 a run for its money the the sheer number and length of them. (i would know...i sat through everyone of them xD)

And ff13 sold incredibly in Europe ^^ 2.1 million isnt bad for a region where no one likes those kind of games ey

And its not just people buying the next literation etc ff12 sold 1.4 million europe so there are half a million new people  i highly doubt (actually garantee) tls would never sell 500k in europe let alone introduce that entire new audience ^^

Also though yes tls is a brilliant game like i said in my review it being real time isnt really that new :/ its been around forever xD 

I dont know how much of the game is cutscenes, havent played it. but the key thing is the evolution of RPG elements, like the real time battles and online play. a bit like Dragon Quest 9's online mode which has done well in Europe but not that well.

FF13 isnt half a million new people. FF10 sold 8mil before FF12 and FF7 10 mil before F10. so its evident that the series has lost many fans. theres no way of telling how many people have been new fans. but i'm very sure FF13 didnt create 0.5 mil RPG fans - those fans were already there. yes maybe theres a few new fans, but no way to tell, and comparative sales tell us those fans played FF7 or FF10 previously. either way FF13-2 will determine whether FF13 damaged RPGs here in the west or not. 

dunno how Nintendo will market TLS, i'm not saying it will reignite the sales success of FF7, but i certainly think it has a fighting chance of doing what JRPGs like FF12 and FF13 failed to do. Mass Effect, Dragon Age, are also RPGs to watch because they are growing into mass market appeal. if Mass Effect 1 released similtaneously on PS3 and 360 3 years ago, the face of RPGs could look very different in Europe imho.

Edits: my point is evident in the form of Pokemon - which has no cutscenes. the key thing for an RPG or any game to be a success is to make it ACCESSIBLE. something JRPGs or WRPGs are not. people think they're complex, boring and tedious, Pokemon avoided this trap because it dosent conform to the standards that RPGs like FF13 set. which is why i think for RPGs to be a success here in the west they need to adapt to the market. something Sakaguchi is clearly trying to do with The Last Story - which is why depsite "it having loads of cutscenes" i think its the right direction for RPGs in Europe.



A203D said:
Chibi.V.29 said:
 

if the people in the UK dont like cut scene driven games they will hate the last story :P the game gives ff13 a run for its money the the sheer number and length of them. (i would know...i sat through everyone of them xD)

And ff13 sold incredibly in Europe ^^ 2.1 million isnt bad for a region where no one likes those kind of games ey

And its not just people buying the next literation etc ff12 sold 1.4 million europe so there are half a million new people  i highly doubt (actually garantee) tls would never sell 500k in europe let alone introduce that entire new audience ^^

Also though yes tls is a brilliant game like i said in my review it being real time isnt really that new :/ its been around forever xD 

I dont know how much of the game is cutscenes, havent played it. but the key thing is the evolution of RPG elements, like the real time battles and online play. a bit like Dragon Quest 9's online mode which has done well in Europe but not that well.

FF13 isnt half a million new people. FF10 sold 8mil before FF12 and FF7 10 mil before F10. so its evident that the series has lost many fans. theres no way of telling how many people have been new fans. but i'm very sure FF13 didnt create 0.5 mil RPG fans - those fans were already there. yes maybe theres a few new fans, but no way to tell, and comparative sales tell us those fans played FF7 or FF10 previously. either way FF13-2 will determine whether FF13 damaged RPGs here in the west or not. 

dunno how Nintendo will market TLS, i'm not saying it will reignite the sales success of FF7, but i certainly think it has a fighting chance of doing what JRPGs like FF12 and FF13 failed to do. Mass Effect, Dragon Age, are also RPGs to watch because they are growing into mass market appeal. if Mass Effect 1 released similtaneously on PS3 and 360 3 years ago, the face of RPGs could look very different in Europe imho.

Edits: my point is evident in the form of Pokemon - which has no cutscenes. the key thing for an RPG or any game to be a success is to make it ACCESSIBLE. something JRPGs or WRPGs are not. people think they're complex, boring and tedious, Pokemon avoided this trap because it dosent conform to the standards that RPGs like FF13 set. which is why i think for RPGs to be a success here in the west they need to adapt to the market. something Sakaguchi is clearly trying to do with The Last Story - which is why depsite "it having loads of cutscenes" i think its the right direction for RPGs in Europe.


pokemon is a reeeealy abd example as its the most un inotive game on earh. if you play the first you retty much know how the play the next 1560 of them. FF13 is a bit over 20% behind ff10 despite that fact there was a long 5 (long time for any series) year break its still actually selling every week (i expect it to be 15% behind by end of its life). which isnt bad considering it was released another 10 years after 10 (most series dont even last 10 years to begin with). if i can asume it will drop another 15% every 10 years then i consider that in incredible successes (already is for only falling by that in the last decade)

And i dont think tls will do well in europe. the simple fact is most of the gamers in Europe (and very much so in the uk) dont like long often very stretched out games. Though i am used to this strute that rpg's have and enjoy it myself TLS does the same as every other rpg in the sense that its filled with fillers. just as almost all jrpg's are these days (though i personaly enjoy the detractions)



Yeah i know my spelling sucks but im dysgraphic so live with it :3    

---------------------------------------------------Bets--------------------------------------------------

Conegamer - I say that the PS3 will beat the DS next week in Japan  (for hardware sales) Forfeit is control over others avatar for 1 week.

A203D said:

the reason its been difficult for Europe to accept JRPGs is because gamers think RPGs are boring. western gamers want action - when FF13 was advertised, it only presented the cutscenes (in Europe anyway, with the Leonia Lewis song). this is completely the opposite to what western gamers want.

they want to see some action, people dont give a toss about cutscene driven games. they think its boring, repititive, tedious. they want something like Uncharted or God of War, where they can just pick it up and play it, they dont want to watch 10mins of cutscenes before they can play. thats not what western gamers want.

even though Mass Effect 2 has been well recieved, its no where near the level of sales of something like Assassin's Creed (a semi popular game), because its not ACCESSABLE. the premise of making someone interested in your game is  making it accessble. people want something they understand, easy to pick up and play.

the only JRPG that has a chance of doing this imo is The Last Story - because it evolves RPGs to the level of western developed games. the main draw of the game is gameplay - a real time battle system. people can understand and relate to that. the other thing is online, leting play a realtime game with your friends. this is my point where FF13 hasnt evolved the genre, it hasnt got more people buying RPGs, its returning fans just buying the 13th iteration.

but Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Demon's Souls and The Last Story will give RPGs a fighting chance in Europe where FF13 couldnt.

Europeans don't like Cutscene heavy Games MGS says HI. 



Japanese Pop Culture Otaku

hikaruchan said:
A203D said:
 

the reason its been difficult for Europe to accept JRPGs is because gamers think RPGs are boring. western gamers want action - when FF13 was advertised, it only presented the cutscenes (in Europe anyway, with the Leonia Lewis song). this is completely the opposite to what western gamers want.

they want to see some action, people dont give a toss about cutscene driven games. they think its boring, repititive, tedious. they want something like Uncharted or God of War, where they can just pick it up and play it, they dont want to watch 10mins of cutscenes before they can play. thats not what western gamers want.

even though Mass Effect 2 has been well recieved, its no where near the level of sales of something like Assassin's Creed (a semi popular game), because its not ACCESSABLE. the premise of making someone interested in your game is  making it accessble. people want something they understand, easy to pick up and play.

the only JRPG that has a chance of doing this imo is The Last Story - because it evolves RPGs to the level of western developed games. the main draw of the game is gameplay - a real time battle system. people can understand and relate to that. the other thing is online, leting play a realtime game with your friends. this is my point where FF13 hasnt evolved the genre, it hasnt got more people buying RPGs, its returning fans just buying the 13th iteration.

but Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Demon's Souls and The Last Story will give RPGs a fighting chance in Europe where FF13 couldnt.

Europeans don't like Cutscene heavy Games MGS says HI. 

Gotta love that game...though yeah, the cutscenes really annoyed me. One went on for what seemed like forever and never really told you anything...

To counter: Metroid: Other M appears! It's super effective!



 

Here lies the dearly departed Nintendomination Thread.