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So, Wii 2 announced this year?

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trestres said:


What's the incentive for people to buy that? When did I say only size was a factor? Did you not read my post in purpose just to have a reason to answer to me? Tell me then, what other features could nintendo add to the Wii to make it more attractive?

The same for 360 and PS3 slim models. 



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Smashchu2 said:
trestres said:
Smashchu2 said:
trestres said:
Smashchu2 said:
trestres said:
 

So where are the games? NSMBWii came less than a year after the slow sales started, completely negating your argument. WSR is far more important than Wii Fit plus, as the latter was just an expansion and not meant to improve sales. WSR on the other hand was, since it introduced the Motion Plus. But that was less than half a year after the slowing sales, once again contradicting your reasoning.

And now that we are 2 years exactly after slow sales commenced, where are the games? That 2 year figure is inexistant. The games should have been here and they are not. What's worse is that their current 1st party line up is extremely weak, there are no notable games.

It doesn't meanthe games will magically start popping up in exactly 2 years. That idea is too literal. Also, the earliest the games could be started was 2009. It could be anywhere from March to October, depending on variations of development time and when the project was decided to enter production. Nintendo is probably being conservative and waiting until the later half of the year for anything (including Skyward Sword). let's also not forget that we know nothing about Nintendo 2011 line up because they wont tell us until later.

So where are the games? NSMBWii came less than a year after the slow sales started, completely negating your argument.

The two bolded are probably the only games made to try to combat this problem, as they would take the shortest time. I mentioned in another thread they could have as short as a 1 year cycle and they have been in production earlier.

I must also ask, what is your reasoning to release a new console. If you were in Nintendo's board room, surrounded by men who graduated from some of the best schools in Japan and probably have a lot of experience in the feild. What would you, posting on VGchartz, say to them for slower Wii sales?

Time to move on. That's what I'd say. Publishers are ignoring the console, why bother anymore? Sales are dying and competitors are seeing rising sales. Investors are wondering how will Nintendo manage to stop the downfall but there's no apparent answer. Plus the console has been very successful and the brand association would be good for next gen while the console is still mentioned in the media. Nintendo has to solve the third party issues. We know most of the companies hate the Wii console and feel repulsion for it, aversion for developing games for the Wii. Nintendo has to start working now on attracting the developers to their console and what's better than a new console, one that publishers won't hate if approached now by Nintendo before Sony and MS make a move first. Waiting for the competition to start next gen would be suicidal and would led to worse results in terms of support. Wii 2 would just be a 1st party machine, way more than what the Wii was. Plus the console is dead in Japan, in their homeland. It would be a big hit for them as a company to start getting outsold by Sony once again, which is getting all of the third party games.

Nintendo is clueless right now in regards to the Wii, it's better to move on than sink even more, at least in Japan. The West will follow suit soon as there is barely no new content for it in the upcoming first half of the year, and sales are already way below what they were last year during this period. Investors don't like to be fooled by the same promises over and over again, they want to see results. 3DS was done in order for Nintendo to maintain supremacy in the handheld market, as SW sales started to die and HW declined fast (and even then it was still selling more HW than the Wii). Wii SW sales are dying pretty much, with now 2 games bundled and a way bigger userbase, SW sales are DOWN from last FY in the same time frames, and the last quarter of this FY will only make things worse as there's no big SW coming up soon.

Now tell me, what would you say to them?

One of the problems with VGchartz is it's NeoGAF with sales data. The people who post here are your regular forum goer rather than people who study business or those who have experience.

Needless to say, paid executives with experience and knowledge would tear though your advice. There is a good reason I said "Tell the exects what to do," rather than "What is your idea." Now you need to be smarter then them. Let's look at some things they might say

  • The economy is bad. They will say releasing a console is bad unless there is a damn good reason (like competition). People don't have the money to buy a $200 or $300 console plus games. While you may say that we are trying to get new users, you'll also have to sell it to the old ones instead.
  • There are a lot of up front cost. You will lose money before you make it (and if your Sony, you'll just lose it). You have to produce the console, advertise it, make games for it, get third party support involved, and be able to get it in people's hands. Releasing a console is is not something you snap your fingures and do
  • It's very risky. You are betting that people will buy your console. Software is easy because people who own the console might buy it and, if it's good enough, it will push sales forward. With a console release, if it doesn't go as expect, you lose for the next few years. You are gambling with a lot of money.
  • It's easier to try to increase sales of an existing system then release a new one all together. There are ways to do it. Release compelling software, even a price cut could work. It's more practical to do that rather then say "We, we'll just have to release a new console."
  • Lastly?
  • You said nothing about customers. Customers are the reason we can make money. None of what you said takes what the customer thinks into consideration. Would current Wii owners want to buy Wii 2? Could those customers feel cheated because of the dismissal of Motion controls? How would we attract new customers? These are questions your solution does address.

    What a lot of people don't understand is what is at stake. There are millions of dollars on the line with these decisions. You say Nintendo is clueless. I disagree. They are still making profit, so they are doing something right. I'd say the people here are clueless. That is why Nintendo hasn't rushed to your door and hired you (Reggie has said Nintendo does view message boards out there).

    Now, what would I tell Nintendo. I would tell them to focus on making software that sells. People bought the Wii for motion control games. They have motion plus. Why not make a lot of motion plus games. Make a new Starfox game, or maybe Nazo no Murasame-jō, or use something like an archery game. People would love to have good motion games, something Nintendo has dropped a bit. I also would have told them to kill games like Galaxy 2 and Other M and redirect the software towards the expanded audience. I'd also say to invest in non-game, those that break the mold of what a game is. Art Acadamy, which didn't get a lot of attention, did very well in Europe and is even used in Museums. These games are always a good investment.

    Funny enough, this is likely the solution Nintendo is doing.


    Look, time will tell which one of us is right. I do sense some frustration in you though, probably trying to wrok at Nintendo but can't?? I mean what did that have to do with anything I said? Looks like your views aren't shared that much eaither. Nintendo focused during the last year on the total opposite type of games you want them to make. I'm sure Iwata isn't in a hurry to pick you up either. You are just talking like Malstrom, and that's terrible. you believe solutions are that easy, simply make software and sales will go up. Nintendo has had Motion Plus for 2 years and they haven't released a thing other than an Wii Sports expansion. Same with the Balance Board, they only released Wii Fit and an expansion. The point is that Nintendo thought 3rd party publishers were going to embrace such add ons, but in reality none is willing to do so. You believe that Nintendo doesn't care about third party sales (which bring a hell lot of money due to royalties), but Iwata is always talking about how he wants his company to be at better relations with them and how the 3DS is an improvement over this.


    You make a lot of assumptions. Remember Assume makes an ass out of U and Me. I would advice you in the future not to attack the person, but the message.  It makes you look unprofessional. Onething I am upset about is that you didn't read the post very well (my quotes are in bold)

    I mean what did that have to do with anything I said?

    There is a good reason I said "Tell the exects what to do," rather than "What is your idea." Now you need to be smarter then them.

    What a lot of people don't understand is what is at stake. There are millions of dollars on the line with these decisions.

    Looks like your views aren't shared that much eaither.

    After you replied to my initial post, others mentioned information, agreeing with my stance.

    Tell me please, if you believe you are a very smart business/tech/economy expert capabale of working with the biggest companies in the world, why is Nintendo releasing the 3DS if sales were still much higher than the Wii's ones. Do you consider the NGP to be competition for the 3DS?

    Nintendo released the 3DS because they saw NPG. They knew the system has been out for 6 years and predicted Sony would release another one. Nintendo announced it at E3 2010 for that reason. They even announced it before that to try to beat Sony as fast as they could. Ever wonder why they never said a release date for a long time and did not release it during the better winter season? They were waiting for Sony to make a move. They decided on early 2011 because it would prevent the software from being rushed. The end of the story is that Sony did release a new PSP, just a little late (They anticipated the same thing with Move. They announced Motion Plus expecting competition in 2008. It took a year to come and wasn't a threat).

    Two critisms. First, the content of what you post doesn't change much. It stays constant. You have to adapt to the conversation. I have replied to everything you said three post ago. Second, you want to use claims against my credability rather against my argument. In fact, in this post you didn't even mentioned what I said and then repeated what has already been said. This shows that you have a weak argument, as you dodge the question rather than add new or crutial information. This is something you shoudl work on. Develop your ideas, and they'll be easier to defend.

    Lol, you attacked me with the "Iwata isn't in a hurry to pick you up". I just defended myself and that attack triggered my indifference towards your post. In fact you are posting the same stuff all over VGChartz in different threads and do not aknowledge when someone points out something that's wrong with your argument.

    Your views aren't shared with Nintendo, if that wasn't clear enough from my post, not by forum goers (who BTW you degraded in your previous post) which make your views less credible. I think our arguemnt here is over since you have a way of debating where you and only you can be right, plus I'm not giving up on my ideas either. None of the points you brought up are strong enough for me to change my opinions, so we will simply see what goes on during the current year instead of endlessly discussing.



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    Mr.Metralha said:
    trestres said:


    What's the incentive for people to buy that? When did I say only size was a factor? Did you not read my post in purpose just to have a reason to answer to me? Tell me then, what other features could nintendo add to the Wii to make it more attractive?

    The same for 360 and PS3 slim models. 

    In their cases it was the size, energy consumption and (only for the 360) reliability.

    Wii can't improve on any of those, so what would a redesign add?



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    Pavolink said:

    trestres said:


    Do you read what you write and what you quote? Look, let me help you: Right besides the word "small" there are two other naughty words that perhaps were hidden from your sight but I've found them. "Reliable" and "energy efficient" want to say hi.

    So you want nintendo to make a console with 3D output, HD output, internal HDD, a new online infrastructure and different HW to be able to handle shaders... OK, you are basically asking for Wii 2 and contradicting the whole point of your argument. Good job, you saved me some writing.

    So, the Xbox360 Slim and Ps3 Slim, most reliables and energy efficients consoles than the first ones are bigger.

    And I didn't now that "?" means "and",instead of new redesign with 3D OR HD OR New Online OR Shaders.

    None of the options you gave are possible without making a completely new piece of HW. I mean why add shaders but not HD output, 3D, Dolby Digital audio, etc? What's the point this late in the gen, do you think developers are going to even care about small graphical when they didn't even care about Wii having much more precise motion controls (motion plus)?? Plus it would be impossible without developing new hardware and sending new dev kits to all the third parties as well as having those games only work in the new systems in some cases.

    Well, the online infraestructure is possible without new HW, but it doesn't require a redesign to work, so scratch that from the list.



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    Pavolink said:

    3D? Better Online? HD? Capacity for some shaders effects like 3DS?

    Ah, but will any of these actually be worth the redesign? Will these really attract more customers? 3D, numerous online features, High Definition, these are already done by competing consoles, I don't see how the Me to strategy will work for the Wii in this case. Suddenly going full support for new features - that competing consoles have had under their belts for years - with a redesign of the Wii does not seem like a smart move.

    Those who care for these features likely already have another console to feed it to them. Nintendo can't just throw this out there expecting people to swipe it up, that particular market has already made their choice. If they hope to attract those customers they'll need software - the right software - to show off these glorious new features, and they need to be fresh, they need to be better than what is offered on alternate consoles, and that is simply not possible, not alone, and the Wii already has abysmal support from third party developers. The current Wii library does not support these features and I don't think they can build up a library supporting these that will make people think twice about buying another console, or get existing owners of alternate consoles to purchase this redesigned Wii. To shift strategies and effectively compete directly with the X360 and PS3 in their strongest fields, five years into the war does not sound like a good idea to me.



    How technical is your game?

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    trestres said:

    Lol, you attacked me with the "Iwata isn't in a hurry to pick you up". I just defended myself and that attack triggered my indifference towards your post. In fact you are posting the same stuff all over VGChartz in different threads and do not aknowledge when someone points out something that's wrong with your argument.

    Your views aren't shared with Nintendo, if that wasn't clear enough from my post, not by forum goers (who BTW you degraded in your previous post) which make your views less credible. I think our arguemnt here is over since you have a way of debating where you and only you can be right, plus I'm not giving up on my ideas either. None of the points you brought up are strong enough for me to change my opinions, so we will simply see what goes on during the current year instead of endlessly discussing.

    Not sure why this was posted. What is your point? What did this have to do with the previous dicussion?  Why can you not result to anything beyond personal attacks? Why have you not added anything new to your argument?



    Smashchu2 said:
    trestres said:
     

    Lol, you attacked me with the "Iwata isn't in a hurry to pick you up". I just defended myself and that attack triggered my indifference towards your post. In fact you are posting the same stuff all over VGChartz in different threads and do not aknowledge when someone points out something that's wrong with your argument.

    Your views aren't shared with Nintendo, if that wasn't clear enough from my post, not by forum goers (who BTW you degraded in your previous post) which make your views less credible. I think our arguemnt here is over since you have a way of debating where you and only you can be right, plus I'm not giving up on my ideas either. None of the points you brought up are strong enough for me to change my opinions, so we will simply see what goes on during the current year instead of endlessly discussing.

    Not sure why this was posted. What is your point? What did this have to do with the previous dicussion?  Why can you not result to anything beyond personal attacks? Why have you not added anything new to your argument?

    I've added a lot of points that you keep on dodging with "smart derailing" and keep trying to lure me into those. We've been already discussing this in other thread already. I don't feel like arguing with you about this topic in particular anymore. And I'm not attacking you, unless you feel attacked by the same kind of responses you gave to me in your previous posts.



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     The Wii doesn't need a redesign people. That would be stupid and a waste of time.



    Play4Fun said:

     The Wii doesn't need a redesign people. That would be stupid and a waste of time.


    It only depends on what Nintendo could add to it. The DS Lite didn't need one either but they still released DSi and DSi XL, which were very successful. I can't see why that would be stupid to follow a strategy that was successful for the DS, PS3, X360... for the Wii.

    Whatever Iwata has said recently that many unannounced Wii games are in development right now so I think that pretty much confirms that Wii 2 won't be released in 2011. Why working on so many Wii projects if Wii 2 is just around the corner? DQX hasn't also been released yet and Square wouldn't be pleased to launch it on a dead platform. And yet Nintendo certainly needs to do something to help the sales of the Wii. A redesign is one of the solutions that certainly makes the more sense.



    gum said:
    Play4Fun said:

     The Wii doesn't need a redesign people. That would be stupid and a waste of time.


    It only depends on what Nintendo could add to it. The DS Lite didn't need one either but they still released DSi and DSi XL, which were very successful. I can't see why that would be stupid to follow a strategy that was successful for the DS, PS3, X360... for the Wii.

    Whatever Iwata has said recently that many unannounced Wii games are in development right now so I think that pretty much confirms that Wii 2 won't be released in 2011. Why working on so many Wii projects if Wii 2 is just around the corner? DQX hasn't also been released yet and Square wouldn't be pleased to launch it on a dead platform. And yet Nintendo certainly needs to do something to help the sales of the Wii. A redesign is one of the solutions that certainly makes the more sense.

    You redesign to make it cheaper or more efficient to manufacture. Nintendo made a profit from day 1 so I don't see a need there.  It doesn't need any revisions. It's not huge or loud or failure prone.

    They could add more onboard memory, maybe an HDMI port or something else that would be cool but fairly useless at this point.

    All they really need to do is sell bundles and maybe different colours until the next system is released.