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Forums - Gaming Discussion - What matters next gen (Power or innovation?)

 

What matters next gen (Power or innovation?)

Raw Power 36 31.86%
 
Innovation 76 67.26%
 
Total:112

Thank God MS and Sony has provided us with both option. It should not be a choice. 



 Next Gen 

11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
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Mr.Metralha said:
dunno001 said:

Of these, neither. What matters is games. If a system doesn't have the games, it dies.

But if I had to pick between these 2 only, easily innovation; it's more influencial than power over every gen. Observe:

  • Pong won, despite being the simplest game known to exist. It innovated by creating gaming.
  • Atari 2600 won, for introducing arcade games at home and interchangable cartridges, despite both its main competitors (Colecovision and Intellivision) being stronger.
  • NES won, for bringing about quality control, and completely redoing the controller. A stronger Master System could not topple it.
  • SNES won, for continuing to innovate the controller. Admittingly, it also got to ride on the Nintendo brand, however, the arcade power in the Neo-Geo could not overtake it.
  • PS1 won, for making the CD standard from day 1, though, while also on the earlier Saturn, the power also brought about the FMV (and in my eyes, the fall of gaming, but that's for another thread) propelling it past the superior in power N64.
  • PS2 won, though it was the weakest system this gen. I can't point to any significant innovation at all though.
  • Well... it's the current generation... I think the verdict will be obvious here...
  • Dreamcast hates you.

    Actually, it may be a faulty memory of mine; I thought I recalled the DC having more power in the system than the PS2, despite the PS2 using DVDs versus CDs. I may be wrong on that, though, in which case, I would stand corrected.



    -dunno001

    -On a quest for the truly perfect game; I don't think it exists...

    disolitude said:
    dunno001 said:

    Of these, neither. What matters is games. If a system doesn't have the games, it dies.

    But if I had to pick between these 2 only, easily innovation; it's more influencial than power over every gen. Observe:

  • Pong won, despite being the simplest game known to exist. It innovated by creating gaming.
  • Atari 2600 won, for introducing arcade games at home and interchangable cartridges, despite both its main competitors (Colecovision and Intellivision) being stronger.
  • NES won, for bringing about quality control, and completely redoing the controller. A stronger Master System could not topple it.
  • SNES won, for continuing to innovate the controller. Admittingly, it also got to ride on the Nintendo brand, however, the arcade power in the Neo-Geo could not overtake it.
  • PS1 won, for making the CD standard from day 1, though, while also on the earlier Saturn, the power also brought about the FMV (and in my eyes, the fall of gaming, but that's for another thread) propelling it past the superior in power N64.
  • PS2 won, though it was the weakest system this gen. I can't point to any significant innovation at all though.
  • Well... it's the current generation... I think the verdict will be obvious here...
  • I think Snes wan cause nintendo made amazing games for it. Especially towards the end of that gen. Had Sega stuck to their gaming guns as well and not screwed around with Sega CD/32X they would have given snes more than it could handle. They had Europe and US in the bag till 1994...then they got spread too thin on too many systems.

    There were standard CD based systems before PS1. PS1 won because Sony started using hype for hardware and gave everyone a lesson in game marketting. They started the whole "lose money on hardware-make money on software" model and were very aggressive in courting 3rd parties for exclusivity.  Sega didn't help its cause by having absolutely no management direction outside of japan and nintendo screwed the pooch for using cartriges.

    PS2 won with the exact same model as PS1 as well as continued success of PS1. Huge tech hype out of the gate, rally 3rd party support...by the time Xbox and gamecube came which were more powerful, Ps2 was already a generation winner.

    P1: I won't dispute the SNES games, though I was trying to stay in context of the power vs innovation aspect. Games trump both of those, so having innovation AND the games makes one an easy winner. As for Sega, yes, they did have Europe sewn up, but it was a lot closer in the US. Where it was that Sega lost was when Nintendo showed that you don't need hardware upgrades to do things like Donkey Kong Country. I still think that game would have made Sega lose either way, but it wouldn't have been as bad of a bloodbath late in.

    P2: From day 1? Other than the Saturn, what disk-based system came first? Sega CD was an add-on to the Genesis, and the TurboDuo was an evolution of the TG16 and its HuCards. I recall there being other disk-based add-ons for many other systems, but I can't think of any others from day 1. Marketing was not a new thing, though I will grant Sony did step it up a fair bit. The selling at a loss is an interesting one also; though I'm not too sure how that would lead to them winning...

    P3: Again, it's coming to the games. Sony didn't innovate anything new there, though, since neither MS nor Nintendo did either, their lead on games did lead to them winning.



    -dunno001

    -On a quest for the truly perfect game; I don't think it exists...

    takes power for devs to create beautiful games. power to fully express their art for perfection. But they have to understand how to use it first instead of sticking to old dogmattic tech. that will limit them and limit innovation.



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    dunno001 said:
     

    P1: I won't dispute the SNES games, though I was trying to stay in context of the power vs innovation aspect. Games trump both of those, so having innovation AND the games makes one an easy winner. As for Sega, yes, they did have Europe sewn up, but it was a lot closer in the US. Where it was that Sega lost was when Nintendo showed that you don't need hardware upgrades to do things like Donkey Kong Country. I still think that game would have made Sega lose either way, but it wouldn't have been as bad of a bloodbath late in.

    P2: From day 1? Other than the Saturn, what disk-based system came first? Sega CD was an add-on to the Genesis, and the TurboDuo was an evolution of the TG16 and its HuCards. I recall there being other disk-based add-ons for many other systems, but I can't think of any others from day 1. Marketing was not a new thing, though I will grant Sony did step it up a fair bit. The selling at a loss is an interesting one also; though I'm not too sure how that would lead to them winning...

    P3: Again, it's coming to the games. Sony didn't innovate anything new there, though, since neither MS nor Nintendo did either, their lead on games did lead to them winning.


    The reason why it was a bloodbath late between Snes and Genesis is because Sega pulled the plug on the Genesis in early 1996...they pulled everything to concentrate on the Saturn. If you check the sales till then end of 1995, they are neck and neck, despite Donkey Kong Country. It was a rediculous decision considering they still had a lot of software coming down the pipe, most of which was canceled or rushed... Nintendo was smart and Snes was sold in NA till end of 1998 and supported properly. They had a 49.99 dollar snes model which Genesis never did (officially - Majesco sold one but I dont think this site counts that). The true Genesis sales in north amerca is 19 million, I don't know what people on this site are smoking listing it at 16 mil... Sega released a statement in 1999 listing sales for all consoles and genesis was at 19 mil in NA.

    So I stand by my statement, if Sega didn't bother with the 32X and was actually giving Genesis the support till the end of that generation worldwide they would have sold a good 5-10 million consoles more and made that race a lot closer than it was (32 mil vs 49 million).

    3DO was a standalone disc based system. Neo Geo CD as well. Neither were in the same league as PS1 technically (3DO wasn't bad tho) but CD systems were out since 1993.

     



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    Gamers that enjoy fun vastly outnumber graphics whores. Innovation can lead to fun. Power just allows more shit onscreen, which really doesnt do anything to change games over the last gen.



    Getting an XBOX One for me is like being in a bad relationship but staying together because we have kids. XBone we have 20000+ achievement points, 2+ years of XBL Gold and 20000+ MS points. I think its best we stay together if only for the MS points.

    Nintendo Treehouse is what happens when a publisher is confident and proud of its games and doesn't need to show CGI lies for five minutes.

    -Jim Sterling

    Well, although I lean towards innovation personally, at this point with the current audience, both are equally important for a market success.



    disolitude said:
    dunno001 said:

    P1: I won't dispute the SNES games, though I was trying to stay in context of the power vs innovation aspect. Games trump both of those, so having innovation AND the games makes one an easy winner. As for Sega, yes, they did have Europe sewn up, but it was a lot closer in the US. Where it was that Sega lost was when Nintendo showed that you don't need hardware upgrades to do things like Donkey Kong Country. I still think that game would have made Sega lose either way, but it wouldn't have been as bad of a bloodbath late in.

    P2: From day 1? Other than the Saturn, what disk-based system came first? Sega CD was an add-on to the Genesis, and the TurboDuo was an evolution of the TG16 and its HuCards. I recall there being other disk-based add-ons for many other systems, but I can't think of any others from day 1. Marketing was not a new thing, though I will grant Sony did step it up a fair bit. The selling at a loss is an interesting one also; though I'm not too sure how that would lead to them winning...

    P3: Again, it's coming to the games. Sony didn't innovate anything new there, though, since neither MS nor Nintendo did either, their lead on games did lead to them winning.

    The reason why it was a bloodbath late between Snes and Genesis is because Sega pulled the plug on the Genesis in early 1996...they pulled everything to concentrate on the Saturn. If you check the sales till then end of 1995, they are neck and neck, despite Donkey Kong Country. It was a rediculous decision considering they still had a lot of software coming down the pipe, most of which was canceled or rushed... Nintendo was smart and Snes was sold in NA till end of 1998 and supported properly. They had a 49.99 dollar snes model which Genesis never did (officially - Majesco sold one but I dont think this site counts that). The true Genesis sales in north amerca is 19 million, I don't know what people on this site are smoking listing it at 16 mil... Sega released a statement in 1999 listing sales for all consoles and genesis was at 19 mil in NA.

    So I stand by my statement, if Sega didn't bother with the 32X and was actually giving Genesis the support till the end of that generation worldwide they would have sold a good 5-10 million consoles more and made that race a lot closer than it was (32 mil vs 49 million).

    3DO was a standalone disc based system. Neo Geo CD as well. Neither were in the same league as PS1 technically (3DO wasn't bad tho) but CD systems were out since 1993.

    Hrm... I do put the Neo Geo CD as an evolution of the Neo Geo (akin to the Turbo Duo I mentioned before), rather than a new system. They went to the CD based in an attempt to reduce the cost of the games. However, I will concede the 3DO and CD-i, both of which I forgot.



    -dunno001

    -On a quest for the truly perfect game; I don't think it exists...

    More power? Really? Graphically speaking I don't see the need for it, I mean consoles have reached almost perfection, any kind of improvement won't make much difference to what we see with PS360, let alone make a new console worth purchase.

    I believe innovation is not just an option. It is the only option console manufacturers have to distinguish from each other.

    Just look at NGP =)

     



    innovation AND power!! FTW!! NGP!! LOL!!