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Forums - General Discussion - Oh my god, the selective service system sent me a registration letter

sapphi_snake on 16 January 2011

@voty2000:

I should have written Germany, my bad.  Your saying the World Wars were pointless, yes they were and I won't disagree, but Germany had to be stopped and that's what the allied forces did.  What you are saying is that we should have let Germany take over because war is bad.  That's ridiculous.  We were forced into the war so the allied forces that died had to die to stop Germany.  If they had to die to protect the world, they died with honor.  If you can't see that, your somebody I don't care to ever speak to again.

Germany did not cause WWI. The allies wanted WWI to take place, just like the Central Powers wanted to. No one was "forced" in that war. As I said, everyone was "evil" in that war. WWII was necessary, but it mainly happened 'cause of WWI and it's aftermath (The Verasilles Treaty, and the allies acting like pricks and putting all the blame on Germany, creating a climate in Germany that allowed Hitler and the Nazis to come to power).

It saddens me about your view on women. 

I can say the exact same thing about you.

I never said that women couldn't do anything, and I clearly explained myself.  All I'm saying is that I do what I can women so they don't have to do things they don't have to.  It's called respect. 

Respect? I'm all for respecting others, but I don't see why being a woman is in itself something that requires respect. There's no logical non-sexist reson for that, and I doubt you can find one that would make sense.

I will never make my future  wife mow the lawn, not because she can't, but because she doesn't have to.

No one HAS to do anything. I still don't see that as a logical reason to excuse someone from doing their share of work, or you should treat them as if they were incompetent.

Your somebody I never want to meet.

Your someone I know all too well. I don't need to meet another one of you, so I'll live.

You'll probably spout more crap about being old fashioned and call me misogynistic again and that's cool.  For one, you apparently don't know what being misogynistic means and two, you've clearly shown your somebody whose words mean nothing to me.

"Misogynistic" is probably too strong of a word, but it was the only one that came to my mind when I was writing that reply. You're definately sexist though, and you beleive irrational gender stereotypes.

I say what sapphire said saddens me because what he said about women and the draft.  He wrote

"Why should women have to be protected by men? If they're not inferior to men and they can fight, then that means they can protect themselves."

I'm sorry but to me that is just pure crap.  Women should not be forced to fight in any military conflict.  If they sign up and want to, great.  But forcing women into battle just shows a lack of respect and a terrible view of women.

I don't believe that ANYONE should be forced to fight in anu military conflict. But if men and women are equal, and just as capable fighters, how can anyone (who thinks logically) say that men should be forced to fight, but women shouldn't? That shows both a lack of respect and a terrible view of men (who you view as expandble), and of women (while you don't realsie your whole "old fashioned respect" for women comes from the ideea that women are inferior to men, and incapable of handling the same responsabilities as them).

I view that a man should put his lady above himself and do what he can to make her life as easy as possible.

I don't think women are incapable of anything, I just think we should take care of them, however that my be.

In other words you think that women are "infantile", that they should be treated like children. Yes, you have an amazing view of women. You truly do.



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voty2000 on 16 January 2011
pearljammer said:
voty2000 said:
 

I cook all the time and go grocery shopping with girlfriends.  Different girls enjoy doing different things and if she enjoys cooking, she can cook.  I'll cook for her as well.  I was just naming examples of stuff I do for women.  Call me old fashioned but the man is supposed to put his wife on a pedestal and do everything he can for her, no matter what it is.  It's simply a sign of respect.  I can't do everything for a woman, there's not enough time and we have to share responsibilities.  Take my parents for example, my mom hates dusting and cleaning the bathroom, so my dad does that for her.  She does the rest of the house work and he does all the yard work, because she doesn't have to mow the lawn.  She never worked so she cooked every night, and she enjoyed it for the most part and my dad never cooked, ever.  I view that a man should put his lady above himself and do what he can to make her life as easy as possible.

I don't know if I'm getting my view across in the correct way because it's hard to have the conversion by typing, and not talking.  I simply believe that a man must take care of his wife, and different couples require different things.  I think the man must put his wife above himself.  I don't think women are incapable of anything, I just think we should take care of them, however that my be.

I say what sapphire said saddens me because what he said about women and the draft.  He wrote

"Why should women have to be protected by men? If they're not inferior to men and they can fight, then that means they can protect themselves."

I'm sorry but to me that is just pure crap.  Women should not be forced to fight in any military conflict.  If they sign up and want to, great.  But forcing women into battle just shows a lack of respect and a terrible view of women. 

If you disagree with what I've said let me know, it's hard to explain my views without a direct conversation.

I agree with you half way. I think it's perfectly normal and ideal for either partner to try and make each other's lives easier. I don't necessarily think it should be the case that a man is expected to place his partner on a pedestal, as you say, any more than what a woman should.

As for that particular quote of sapphire, I do agree with him, though I likely would have worded it differently. If it is required of men, and one views women as capable as men, why shouldn't they required? I don't ask this out of resentment or jealousy, I actually ask it because of a mutual respect.

When I think of my girlfriend of nine years, I would protect her from what ever harm I could. Not because she is a woman but because I care for her. The same reason why I would protect my brother. I view her as an empowered woman who would expect to be treated like anybody else. I don't think I could show her any higher form of respect.

You have done a good job stating what you believe, but you really should qualify why it shows a lack of respect and a terrible view of women because it's quite unclear why you think so.

If you'd prefer, we could just continue this through our walls/pms. Tomorrow that is, it's pretty damn late where I am. Good night!


I can agree with you disagreeing with putting the women on a pedestal, that's my personal belief. 

When it comes to women in the draft, physically men are stronger than women.  We are the stronger sex and as the stronger sex it's our duty to protect our women.  I think it shows a lack of respect because woman are the child bearers, something men can't do.  Women have the duty to carry our children and I think men have the duty to protect them, we each have our roles and denying women our protection to me shows lack of respect.  We should want to make sure the female population is cared for, and sometimes that means giving our lives for their sake.  I guess that my views are simply drilled into my core and others may disagree, but I cannot honestly understand how a man could want women in the draft.  I mean, growing up my father was much more protective of my sisters than me and my brother.  He didn't think they were weak, he simply wanted them to have the best life possible and drilled into my head that you respect all women and do what you can to protect them.



Lostplanet22 on 16 January 2011

I had to do an military training so they could always have called me for duty (well not anymore because I changed Nationality), your view is just so narrow...Being registred doesn't mean that when they call you for duty that they will put a gun in your hands and demand that you shoot people;..you can do a lot of things,   Logistics/transport, ICT-Compuer stuff, or like I did First Help Medicic (assistant)  and plenty of other stuff..

I consider myself Pacifist aswell for the simple reason that I think to much and probably are way to sensitive...  Those Germans in WWII did they fight all for their government or for other reasons....Like their family?  How many Americans didn't join the Reich's army because they had family in Germany? I think for the most humans Family goes first then (maybe) values..what could they do anyway?  'Hey Hitler Sorry pal don't want to fight?'  or move to UK/France/ USA?   Like most Germans living in those countries they would be treated like crap...All they could do was to fight and hope it ends well...Same for WWI and the Civil war 1861-1865..



 

Lostplanet22 on 16 January 2011
mrstickball said:
voty2000 said:

Pay attention to what I'm saying.  Shitty stuff happens during the war that's all you've shown.  Not all wars are justifiable and some are just plain wrong.  But just because crappy stuff happens does not mean that all war is evil.  If a country tries to rise up and overthrow the world, they must be brought down.  You;re trying to put words in my mouth by saying I don't think bad stuff happens.  But with all the crap that happened in the American Revolution, WW I and WW II, those were not evil on our part.  THe enemy was evil and had to be stopped.  You can't argue against that.

Again, I'm not saying that evil does not exist in war, even on the part of the good guys, but the small amount of crap that happens does not mean the entire army of the good guys is wrong.  I'm not going into small skirmishes like columbia because I can't say for certain what should have happened.  What I will say is the WW I and WW II had to happen to stop Germany.  I know it's pointless to discuss somehting like this with you because you will not listen to reason, but maybe it will make you stop and think that you don't know all and your views are not the end all.

Last words, again, five years from now if you see this post, you'll realize how off some of the things your saying are.  I know from experience.  Good day random internet fanatic, I won't even look at the response so don't bother.

This will be my last post in the thread, because I don't think what I say will do any good but..

The central problem with his line of thought "War is evil. We should never participate in it as Americans. All external wars would of been solved without our intervention" throws away the idea that greater evils would of taken place had we not intervened - in fact, on levels that make things like Abu Ghraib and other American atrocities look like an episode of Sesame Street.

For example, had we not of intervened in World War 2, the following would of happened:

The Soviet Union would of taken the entirety of Europe, leading them into poverty and destruction for many decades. Furthermore, many human rights would of been utterly destroyed. As far as we know, the Russians raped over 2 million German women during and after the war. A number that is multiples higher than any claimed number by the Western allies in the Brits, Americans, and Canadians. And that was with us taking half of Germany before the war ended. Furthermore, the Soviets would of done things unimaginable to the Japanese had they of been the only ones to solve that side of the war. I would imagine that the Soviets would of ended up invading Japan, along with the Chinese, and killing/raping every last Japanese citizen to the last child, for their atrocities in China. Far worse outcomes than what we experienced, having intervened in the war.

Oh, lets not forget the nuclear war that would of occurred in the 1960's that would of resulted in the death of approximately 1 billion Asians and Russians, had we not intervened (I wonder how many know of that one?).

According to Phoenix, such atrocities would be 'ok' because they aren't our atrocities. According to his line of logic, its better if a billion people die, and millions raped, tortured and beaten as long as it isn't you, or your country. That is why I have a problem with his logic. By his logic, we should not have police either, or desire to defend our family or property if ever assaulted by another individual.

Their is a small difference...German soldiers did no mistreat in USA/Canada/UK (except for the bombs ofcourse) Simply saying the Russians soldiers were fueled by anger for revenge;..And every human knows that the weakness of every man is his wife...Don't want to mention it but that was the same for Vietnam isn't it? " During the Vietnam war, rape was in fact an all too common occurrence, often described by GIs as SOP--standard operating procedure."



 

Kasz216 on 16 January 2011

Even if they don't have a health test... I really doubt you'd pass the Psych test Phoenix, your all kinds of silly paranoid.


I mean you are having  a heart attack about something that wouldn't be enforced unless....

A) We were being invaded directly, in which case we'd be fucked anyway... numbers really don't matter that much in modern warfare.

B) The government was taken over and made into a dictatorship of fascist state.  In which case, if there was no draft, they would instate one shortly after anyway.

 

Edit: Also, blaming the Civil war Jim Crow laws and the KKK is kinda like blaming a woman for people being mad at someone for killing a rapist who tries to rape them.

You know what nonviolent resistance gets a rape victim?  It gets them raped.

You know what nonviolent resistance gets a slave?  A whipping.

Non violent resistance only really works if the people you are resisting give a shit about you.

I mean hell since WW2 has already been brought up, how well did non violent resistance help the Jews in WW2?


Pacisfism is nothing but a philosphy of the well off.  It's easy to be a pacisfist if your a middle class white dude in America or some other similar country, cause people care about you and few people wanna mess up your shit. 

It's a bit different if you're living in africa, and have the general choice of sending men out for food who will generally be killed or women out for food who will be raped, because your great great great great great grandfather was part of the wrong group that hasn't existed for generations.



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rocketpig on 16 January 2011
voty2000 said:

I can agree with you disagreeing with putting the women on a pedestal, that's my personal belief. 

When it comes to women in the draft, physically men are stronger than women.  We are the stronger sex and as the stronger sex it's our duty to protect our women.  I think it shows a lack of respect because woman are the child bearers, something men can't do.  Women have the duty to carry our children and I think men have the duty to protect them, we each have our roles and denying women our protection to me shows lack of respect.  We should want to make sure the female population is cared for, and sometimes that means giving our lives for their sake.  I guess that my views are simply drilled into my core and others may disagree, but I cannot honestly understand how a man could want women in the draft.  I mean, growing up my father was much more protective of my sisters than me and my brother.  He didn't think they were weak, he simply wanted them to have the best life possible and drilled into my head that you respect all women and do what you can to protect them.

Though you may have the best intentions, that ideal carries mysogyny in its very core.

I'm not bashing you for it, I'm just saying that you should reconsider what role women should play in modern society.

Hell, I carry it in my core as well. It's not something that's easily shed.




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rocketpig on 16 January 2011
Kasz216 said:

Edit: Also, blaming the Civil war Jim Crow laws and the KKK is kinda like blaming a woman for people being mad at someone for killing a rapist who tries to rape them.

You know what nonviolent resistance gets a rape victim?  It gets them raped.

You know what nonviolent resistance gets a slave?  A whipping.

Non violent resistance only really works if the people you are resisting give a shit about you.

I mean hell since WW2 has already been brought up, how well did non violent resistance help the Jews in WW2?


Pacisfism is nothing but a philosphy of the well off.  It's easy to be a pacisfist if your a middle class white dude in America or some other similar country, cause people care about you and few people wanna mess up your shit. 

It's a bit different if you're living in africa, and have the general choice of sending men out for food who will generally be killed or women out for food who will be raped, because your great great great great great grandfather was part of the wrong group that hasn't existed for generations.

Fighting is bad. Just ask anyone from central Africa how letting an angry bad guy "who will gain power but will go away after enough non-violent protests are given" run around for awhile gets the populace.




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voty2000 on 16 January 2011
rocketpig said:
voty2000 said:

I can agree with you disagreeing with putting the women on a pedestal, that's my personal belief. 

When it comes to women in the draft, physically men are stronger than women.  We are the stronger sex and as the stronger sex it's our duty to protect our women.  I think it shows a lack of respect because woman are the child bearers, something men can't do.  Women have the duty to carry our children and I think men have the duty to protect them, we each have our roles and denying women our protection to me shows lack of respect.  We should want to make sure the female population is cared for, and sometimes that means giving our lives for their sake.  I guess that my views are simply drilled into my core and others may disagree, but I cannot honestly understand how a man could want women in the draft.  I mean, growing up my father was much more protective of my sisters than me and my brother.  He didn't think they were weak, he simply wanted them to have the best life possible and drilled into my head that you respect all women and do what you can to protect them.

Though you may have the best intentions, that ideal carries mysogyny in its very core.

I'm not bashing you for it, I'm just saying that you should reconsider what role women should play in modern society.

Hell, I carry it in my core as well. It's not something that's easily shed.

Mysogyny is the hatred of women because they are women, which is far from my view.  I guess you could call my ideals sexist.  I would agree that my thinking was wrong if I believed that women should not be in the military, but I don't think that, I just think they shouldn't be forced to join.



toastboy44562 on 16 January 2011
PhoenixKing said:
noname2200 said:
PhoenixKing said:

It says I've been registered?! What the hell is this?

Can anyone please tell me how to get out of this? I don't want to be forced into either going to jail or killing people once a draft comes in!

I think I'm seriously freaking out here...

I tried going on the website but its vague and all the FAQ seems to say is "You have to do it" like you don't have a choice.

Where do I go to get out of this? I don't want any possibility of me joining the military!

Dude, chill.  If you're an American male over 18, you MUST register by law, but the draft hasn't been activated for decades now, and most likely won't during your eligible period.  So just relax.



Why?! I have a heart condition. I'm afraid of dying if I get registered into the military...

Apparently women are completely excluded! What the hell is this? This goes against the 14th amendment! Women should be forced to do so if men are. Why does America hate men so much?

man up. protect the women. I wouldn't care if i had to kill people of other countries. I love america



libertinias on 19 January 2011

I am avoiding the huge arguement about the morality of war, and just want to point out something practical.  I just got back from a recruiting office and one of the soldiers pointed out something about registering for the selective service that I didn't know.  You have until you're 25 to register.  If you don't, then you miss your chance and can't ever join the army.  You may not be interested now, but don't limit your future options.  I never planned to join, but after college, it seems like a good option.  I'm looking at 20k a year, housing costs, food costs, and health insurance.  It's pretty sweet.  I'm getting married before I go to basic, so my longtime girlfriend will get to enjoy the benefits too.  This beats another year of working just to pay rent in Michigan's poor economy. 

If you're young, you will probably change your mind a lot before you settle down into middle age.  Do not limit your options now by doing something misguided on principle.