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Wagram on 14 January 2011
SmoothCriminal said:

Actually, I think you have it all wrong. Humans themselves are a giant joke. No nation isn't. Sure there are "better" nations out there (and personally I love America. The government can fuck itself most of the time, but the country itself I love), but regardless of where you go you'll find scum and filth, stains upon this otherwise clean planet.


Very true besides the county love part.



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SmoothCriminal on 14 January 2011
PhoenixKing said:
mrstickball said:
PhoenixKing said:
mrstickball said:
nightsurge said:
mrstickball said:
PhoenixKing said:

YOU are living in a childhood fantasy crafted by movies and patriotic ramblings.

Military fighting isn't 'good vs bad'- light vs dark star wars BS.

It's going into peoples homes, forcing information from them, bombing innocent civilian areas because of enemy bases nearby or because that's how they get their food, it's killing children should you be ordered to do so, and it's sick and wrong.

These aren't 'over-dramatized isolated incidents'. They're fact. They happen all the time in wars. Civilians are the FIRST objective to be attacked so they don't join the opposing army or provide food for them.

Nazi's taking over the world? Nazi's had no chance of doing that because they were fighting a 2 front war and Russia was on our side.

Honor in dying? No such thing. Your wife would grieve for your death, no? Wouldn't she feel guilty about it?

Look at Abraham Lincoln, when he was killed, his wife went crazy and was sent to a mental institution because she thought anyone emotionally close to her would die (Her husband died after she lost 3 sons in the war).

Want to know why schools don't tell you this? Because NO ONE wants fresh and able-bodied military resources to be anything but happy about partaking in war.

Also, to put it in the most simplest terms, since I'm sure most of you don't believe me.

War's definition: Organized Murder.

That's it. That's all. It's no different than gangs killing people. You just wear an honorary uniform to do it.

Just curious, but do you think war against Hitler was justified? What about Pol Pot, or Imperial Japan?

Give it up, mrstickball.  This kid is delusional as they come.  I love how he preaches to us more mature and older individuals about living in a fantasy created by movies when he himself is the one seemingly living in a fantasy and not fully understanding many of these complex topics.

I know I have kept out of commenting on the actual war topics, but I must say his comment about "killing civilians is the first thing to do so they won't join up" is the absolute worst logic ever and completely false.  Sure some idiotic crazy war pirates and terrorists will do this, but if your goal is actually to win a war you want the citizens to like you as an invading force or to at least tolerate you, not hate you.  If you go off killing civilians left and right the only thing that will do is inspire civilians further to stand against you.

Now please, you are obviously only 18 and being overrun with information from many sources that are not always credible.  Take the advice of all of us on here and chill out.

I mean, I can understand his distain of what war is. War is hell. War is vile. The worst atrocities of humanity are usually in and around wars. Yet at the same time, some wars have purged us from evils that did their deeds in the shadows, only finding out the horrors once war was ended.

Atrocities are atrocities, but to say that all war is bad, to me, begs to justify regimes and perpetrators of the worst kinds of crimes - the ones that go unpunished. Americans have done some bastardly things in wars, but they pale in comparison to the things done by others in wars, and before wars were perpetrated.

If you read a lot of stuff about war, you have a healthy respect for what it does, and what it accomplishes in the face of pure evil. If it were not for intervention in some of the worst conflicts of humanity, they would of continued unchecked, and lay hidden in the dark, for us to never know the evils that were perpetrated behind 'peace'.

When you look at some of the war atrocities - the Rape of Nanking, Katyn Forest, the Soviet Occupation of post-war Germany, Pol Pot's post-war Cambodian regime, and dozens of others, you understand that, in very rare instances, war and the atrocities thereof are the lesser of two evils. I could not imagine a world to where we did not fight the Nazis, the or the North Koreans and Chinese. Instances like that are why I cannot always stomach pacificsm, because it seeks a world that does not exist - a world where no one is abused or hurt. Sadly, that is not the reality in a lot of places. God forgive us when North Korea collapses, and we find out what really went on while we were sitting in our warm houses, playing on the internet, and watching TV instead of engaging such a vile regime.

Why did Nazi Germany come to surface? Because of war reparations forced upon Germany after World war 1 compounded with the Great Depression.

Why did Pol Pot eradicate 2 million Cambodians who were on the Pro-American side? Because America's bomb campaign in Cambodia hit the wrong towns and killed millions of innocent civilians during the war.

Why did the war against Korea end in a neutrality with it being divded in the middle? Because America kept going further up and China had warned us that it felt threatened during the time we were winning the war.

War creates more war and genocides. These events WERE impacted because of American military action, though in the case of WW2, it was due to French and British politics of desiring to embarass Germany backed by combined military might.

You think I'm a delusional kid? You both haven't even made an argument against anything I've said. The other dude is just condescending and arrogant so I won't even respond to his childish rants.

You never answered my question:

Do you believe that the actions of Hitler, Pol Pot, Imperial Japan, and such should of continued unabated? I understand your points, but you didn't answer my question.


Hitler wouldn't have taken over had America never even bothered to step in. He was doomed the moment he betrayed the USSR. The Eastern Front was simply a battle he couldn't win. America going in was technically irrelevant on Hitler's end although, admittedly, it would have happened anyway since that idiot declared war on America only a few days after Pearl Harbor.

Imperial Japan would have been taken down by Russia, period. Japan was just a sad situation because their child of an emperor had no control over what his board did.

Pol Pot did what he did because he was convinced America was 'evil' and that all 'western influenced' Cambodians were evil. America's illegal bombing campaign by Nixon was one of the major factors in why Cambodians united under Pol Pot.  Not ONLY that, but you're ignoring the fact that America supported a Dictatorship of Lon Nol, who was a corrupt and vile tyrant himself, against Pol Pot's communism. Were you even aware of this? America was NOT supporting the establishment of a democracy in Cambodia.

America simply shouldn't be involved in these affairs. It's actions were a catalyst to the tragedies that occurred and usually cause more problems while wasting millions.

Just look at the American Civil war, it created the KKK, the black codes, and other Jim Crow laws that kept Blacks surpressed from having equal rights. What ended this terrible system? Non-violent civil disobediance.

People should learn: War is NEVER the answer.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! You seriously think that war was about slavery? 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!



MDMAniac on 14 January 2011

Rath said:

I was criticising your jab "Besides, why are you so worried about joining the military? Too worried you may have to defend America?" because most of the major wars America takes part in (and the last ones to have people drafted into) were not about defending America. They were about foreign policy.

I'm not necessarily criticising the use of the military for foreign policy - I'm saying somebody who doesn't want to be drafted doesn't have to be "worried they may have to defend America". They may be worried they'll be sent off to a foreign hell hole to further the interests of the American government.


You know you're living well thanks to this "stupid" foreing policy, don't you? If it were not for those foreign affairs and military actions, you'd be in much worse state. Even military actions are must to dominate in international competition. So it's not just interests of the government, it's yours as well. And if you do really mind such business, feel free to immigrate from the country. Other way you're just being hypocrite.



SmoothCriminal on 14 January 2011
Wagram said:
SmoothCriminal said:

Actually, I think you have it all wrong. Humans themselves are a giant joke. No nation isn't. Sure there are "better" nations out there (and personally I love America. The government can fuck itself most of the time, but the country itself I love), but regardless of where you go you'll find scum and filth, stains upon this otherwise clean planet.


Very true besides the county love part.

To explain, I'm Native American. The "Americans" can go fuck themselves, but I like the Americans. (See what I did there? :P)



Wagram on 14 January 2011
SmoothCriminal said:
Wagram said:
SmoothCriminal said:

Actually, I think you have it all wrong. Humans themselves are a giant joke. No nation isn't. Sure there are "better" nations out there (and personally I love America. The government can fuck itself most of the time, but the country itself I love), but regardless of where you go you'll find scum and filth, stains upon this otherwise clean planet.


Very true besides the county love part.

To explain, I'm Native American. The "Americans" can go fuck themselves, but I like the Americans. (See what I did there? :P)

Indeed.



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Baalzamon on 14 January 2011
RVDondaPC said:
Wagram said:
RVDondaPC said:
Wagram said:
noname2200 said:
Wagram said:

Thank god i'm an only son :)

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/deploymentsconflicts/a/solesurviving.htm

Suck it!


Id shoot myself and or move to another country before I would even consider defending this shit hole.


Please do so, immediately. 


I'm going to assume your one of the pro military/america types?

I'm not pro military nor anti military. I just think this country is better off without people like you. I'm not going to actively try to eradicate the country of such people but if one is willing to do it himself, then I encourage it full force. So why are you still here if you hate this place so much? 

I don't think that I would ever fight on behalf of the country either, as I don't feel it should be an obligation to protect people living 2,000 miles away who probably will never have had an effect on your life anyways, and who don't give a shit about your life.

The only situation where I would feel obligated to fight is on the local level.  Should war erupt in Central Minnesota for instance, I would feel obligated to fight and protect what I call home and protect all of my relatives that are living in the area.  Fighting in this situation would have absolutely nothing to do with protecting the country as a whole though, but only to protect my local area.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

voty2000 on 15 January 2011
PhoenixKing said:
voty2000 said:
PhoenixKing said:
voty2000 said:

This is the response I expected from you.  Rambling on and on with no real information.  So, if China(hypothetical) decides to take over the earth, should we let them, because if we fight back bad things will happen?  This is what happens when you don't think about the crap you a spewing.  It makes no sense. 

The allied forces attacking Germany had to happen.  You contradicted yourself pretty severely.  You say that Nazi's had no chance of taking over the world.  Why is that?  Because, GASP, people fought back.  If nobody fought back you would have never been born. 

With your ideals, I could get about 100 guys together and conquer the earth because war is murder so we shouldn't fight back.  Nobody fights back and kills me, we take over the world.  Glad people don't think like you.

As for honorable death, if you let your wife die and you could have saved her, you are a pathetic existence of a man.  I would rather die saving my loved ones than living the life of a coward and being treated as such.  A mourning wife is much better than a dead one.  Why can't you see that?  Because you don't think, you read some crap and believed.

You tell me I'm living a childhood fantasy.  Your most likely 17 or 18 so your still a child with distorted views of the world.  I guarantee that 5 years from now if you read this post again, you'll realize how wrong you are.  Know how I know this?  I used to be your age and said stupid stuff.  You'll grow smarter and wiser, and it's great.

I realize horrible things happen in wars and wish they wouldn't, but they are isolated incidents that aren't the norm, and these people get punished when they are caught.  Just because bad stuff happens, that doesn't mean you shouldn't fight.  The internet allows smut videos of people being murdered to be viewed by all, so by your logic, we should ban the internet.  Sounds ridiculous.

Now see I calmly I replied and expressed my viewpoints without looking like rabbling lunatic?  That's wisdom baby.



You're just using strawman and condescending insults. That's all you do. You haven't made any specific credible reasons on why I'm wrong. You just say I am.

They aren't isolated incidents, never have been, and you haven't provided any factual basis for any of your arguments. Then you insult me over a hypothetical situation about a dead wife, of which I gave you a actual historic event that happened to an American president as a counter argument.

You're not arguing anything. You just insult. It's ridiculous. I'll stop taking you seriously as that was clearly my mistake.

Where are your facts?  You said you read a book and wathced some films.  That's a fact?  You have not explained anything and you have proven nothing.  You spouted off random crap like I'm supposed to simply believe it.  You complain about me insulting you but your first line in your first reply was an insult at me.  Wow, dish it bet can't take it.  Yes I am be condescending because you keep stating stuff like it's fact without backing anything up.  Read your posts and show me the facts.  Please, show me these facts I need to disprove.

It's clearly evident that your not afraid of war, your afraid of death.

Random crap? You obviously never even studied the history of Cambodia if you think that's all random crap.

Movie: The Killing Fields.

Books: A problem from Hell by Samantha Power, War is a Force which gives us meaning by Chris Hedges, among many journals and news articles I've also read about the subjects.

Anyone who studied Cambodia would know without doubt that the information I was telling you was accurate. It's not me who argues from ignorance and insults others character.

Again, you have no credible sources, never bothered to provide any, and have only ever insulted me as a person instead of actually providing a counter argument. I'm not taking you seriously anymore, you don't deserve that kind of respect because of your actions.

Perhaps I seem riled-up, but it's justified, I'm no longer speaking to people who essentially take things 'in one ear and out the other'.

Resume insulting me, if you wish. Good day.

Pay attention to what I'm saying.  Shitty stuff happens during the war that's all you've shown.  Not all wars are justifiable and some are just plain wrong.  But just because crappy stuff happens does not mean that all war is evil.  If a country tries to rise up and overthrow the world, they must be brought down.  You;re trying to put words in my mouth by saying I don't think bad stuff happens.  But with all the crap that happened in the American Revolution, WW I and WW II, those were not evil on our part.  THe enemy was evil and had to be stopped.  You can't argue against that. 

Again, I'm not saying that evil does not exist in war, even on the part of the good guys, but the small amount of crap that happens does not mean the entire army of the good guys is wrong.  I'm not going into small skirmishes like columbia because I can't say for certain what should have happened.  What I will say is the WW I and WW II had to happen to stop Germany.  I know it's pointless to discuss somehting like this with you because you will not listen to reason, but maybe it will make you stop and think that you don't know all and your views are not the end all. 

Last words, again, five years from now if you see this post, you'll realize how off some of the things your saying are.  I know from experience.  Good day random internet fanatic, I won't even look at the response so don't bother.



outlawauron on 15 January 2011

The complete ignorance of Americans about our nation's military and how military service as well as the draft is carried out is repulsive. In the case of a draft, every single man is evaluated. Those with poor health and those are deemed unfit for service will be sent home.


Even in the case of a draft (made EVEN MORE unlikely with the USA's ownership of nukes), you wouldn't be able to be in the military.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

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agardini51 on 15 January 2011

Well I sure hope you people who won't register don't  ever want to apply for student loans for college, a Federal Job, or in some states apply for a drivers license. As registering is a requirement for all those things. In my state (Iowa) to get a license it was mandatory to register. So be careful to what states you move to later in life. 




Get your Portable ID!

End of 2009 sales predictions:

PS3 - 33 Million     360 - 40 Million    Wii - 75 Million

starcraft on 15 January 2011
Cactus said:
starcraft said:
 

What you're describing is how unethical armies and certain sadistic individuals (who exist EVERYWHERE including OUTSIDE of war) conduct warfare.  As someone else mentioned, when it comes to the US military, you're picking the isolated incidents and using them to indict the whole body.  The vast majority of the military strikes America has made SINCE THE COUNTRY'S INCEPTION have had risk/benefit analysis' made that incorporate civilian collatoral.

There is no instance of America EVER making it policy to attack civilians first.  EVER!

Honor in dying is a subjective thing I will grant you, but you're clearly the world's greatest pessimist if you genuinely believe it isn't possible in any scenario.

And now I feel like and idiot, because I just realized I spent time responding to someone who appears to have just claimed it wasn't worth fighting the Nazi's...


I agree with what you're saying in principal, but I question the bolded. What about the Hamburg/Dresden firebombing in WW2? What about the atomic bomb drops? I don't want to get into a debate about the ethics of these events, but they do seem to be attacks where the immediate goal was civilian casualties.

I guess it would depend on your definition of attacking first.  Both of those were last resorts long after other countries dragged America into the war and millions had died on both sides.

Also, the Nuclear Bombs were both targeted at the most military/industrial sites the Americans could pinpoint, and they didn't truly comprehend the devastation they would bring.



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