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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - DKC Returns is TOO HARD

FAMEL said:
Wagram said:

If you want hard. Play demon's souls for the first time.


Demon Souls is hard but is nothing compared to some of the NES reliques like Ninja Gaiden or Battletoads.

 

Demon Souls is hard because of the movement of the characters, they are so limited... so many times i died in demon souls because i cant quick turn around or when i get stucked in some weird object in the ground when it doesn't makes any sense.

DKCR is hard not because of bad controls or bad game design, it's hard because every single character is a b!tch lol so many times i tried to go to some part of a level and in the eleventh time the stupid character changes it's pattern and KABOOM! lol I still have nightmares about that level on world 2, the one that is always rainning bombs OMG!!! :P

Ninja Gaiden is pretty bad ass hard. :P



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Wagram said:
FAMEL said:
Wagram said:

If you want hard. Play demon's souls for the first time.


Demon Souls is hard but is nothing compared to some of the NES reliques like Ninja Gaiden or Battletoads.

 

Demon Souls is hard because of the movement of the characters, they are so limited... so many times i died in demon souls because i cant quick turn around or when i get stucked in some weird object in the ground when it doesn't makes any sense.

DKCR is hard not because of bad controls or bad game design, it's hard because every single character is a b!tch lol so many times i tried to go to some part of a level and in the eleventh time the stupid character changes it's pattern and KABOOM! lol I still have nightmares about that level on world 2, the one that is always rainning bombs OMG!!! :P

Ninja Gaiden is pretty bad ass hard. :P

Ninja Gaiden is one of the few games that i own for the NES that i just can't finish lol

Although finished Battletoads and Tennage Mutant Ninja Turtles :P



--OkeyDokey-- said:

[...]

In every level there are a number of things that WILL kill you the first time you come across them. Progression boils down to getting to an obstacle, death, trying again, success (sometimes). Then 5 seconds later you repeat this on another obstacle. And it goes on like this until you reach a checkpoint, at which stage you've gone through that section of the level at least 5 times. Now repeat that entire process twice and the level is over. RELIEF. But there's no sense of accomplishment. It feels like my memory is what got me through rather than skill.

[...]

Implying you didn't have to memorize parts in pretty much all the old games on planet Earth... And implying Donkey Kong Country Returns is not returning to old roots...

I love the fact that I die in this game. This is exactly what I was expecting, and I got what I expected. No bad comment from me.

I think this generation of gaming made you soft.



Random game thought :
Why is Bionic Commando Rearmed 2 getting so much hate? We finally get a real game and they're not even satisfied... I'm starting to hate the gaming community so f****** much...

Watch my insane gameplay videos on my YouTube page!

Damned casual.

Try the new GoldenEye on 007 Classic difficulty.



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amp316 said:

Damned casual.

Try the new GoldenEye on 007 Classic difficulty.

No.



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SHMUPGurus said:
--OkeyDokey-- said:

[...]

In every level there are a number of things that WILL kill you the first time you come across them. Progression boils down to getting to an obstacle, death, trying again, success (sometimes). Then 5 seconds later you repeat this on another obstacle. And it goes on like this until you reach a checkpoint, at which stage you've gone through that section of the level at least 5 times. Now repeat that entire process twice and the level is over. RELIEF. But there's no sense of accomplishment. It feels like my memory is what got me through rather than skill.

[...]

Implying you didn't have to memorize parts in pretty much all the old games on planet Earth... And implying Donkey Kong Country Returns is not returning to old roots...

I love the fact that I die in this game. This is exactly what I was expecting, and I got what I expected. No bad comment from me.

I think this generation of gaming made you soft.

Dying is not the problem. Running out of lives and getting kicked out of the level constantly in co-op is extremely annoying. Yes you can collect lives and coins by replaying old levels but we go through 80 lives in 20 minutes in world 4 in co-op. Most of the time you're together in a cart or rocket, which is not a lot of fun in co-op anyway and you lose two lives on each mistake / new level section. You only get 3 balloons after a game over in co-op, means you can die twice before getting kicked out of the level again (resetting the checkpoints).

I went on in single player until world 6, where single player isn't fun anymore either. Every platform sinks or crumbles. The game is constantly chasing you on one way or another. NSMB was hard too, but a lot more fun to play.

Some more checkpoints and get rid of the lives system would have helped a lot with the frustration level. The superguide is not a solution. It doesn't reveal anything new, it's obvious what you need to do all the time, you just have to know in advance what's coming.



DKCR is not that hard at all. Compare it to a NES Megaman game and it's almost a walk in the park.

The one complaint about difficulty I believe is valid lay in the bosses. The bosses in the game are flawed because of the premise behind their design: they ape (pun not intended) the style of Rare's DKC bosses in the original SNES games. Retro tried to fuse that with the scripted, timed gameplay style of DKCR's stages, but here's what happens:

1. The bosses do not have big, "splashy" animated tells to let the player see clearly what they're about to do next. Randomness in boss patterns is not bad; that creates challenge. Bad tells /is/ bad, and the tells are mediocre in this game's boss designs. The thing is, that is a general problem Retro struggles with in their games - the Metroid Prime trilogy has some fantastic bosses, but they can be frustrating due to vague or misleading "tells" with poor timing.

2. The scripted and timed nature of DKCR's stages causes boss battles to be dragged out artificially with lots of "dead time" between major attacks. The worst offender is the mine cart boss. The player ends up standing on his cart for long, dead seconds waiting for the next phase to begin. The problem is that since the bosses are hard, when you die you have to start the entire tiring process over. For a game that's as viciously exciting as DKCR, its bosses feel out of place and work against it.

But bosses aside, the primary stage design is brilliant, and its tough difficulty that expects the player to man up is a breath of fresh air - especially because the stages are so fun to play, dying and restarting is exciting, not discouraging.



I'm not sure why people are saying co-op is harder.  It's actually easier depending on how you play it, because you gain access to Diddy's peanut pop-gun, which isn't available in single player.  All you have to do is jump on DK's back and it's just like single player with an added attack.  Just go buy more lives from Cranky (up to 99) and you're set.



Squeakthedragon said:

DKCR is not that hard at all. Compare it to a NES Megaman game and it's almost a walk in the park.

The one complaint about difficulty I believe is valid lay in the bosses. The bosses in the game are flawed because of the premise behind their design: they ape (pun not intended) the style of Rare's DKC bosses in the original SNES games. Retro tried to fuse that with the scripted, timed gameplay style of DKCR's stages, but here's what happens:

1. The bosses do not have big, "splashy" animated tells to let the player see clearly what they're about to do next. Randomness in boss patterns is not bad; that creates challenge. Bad tells /is/ bad, and the tells are mediocre in this game's boss designs. The thing is, that is a general problem Retro struggles with in their games - the Metroid Prime trilogy has some fantastic bosses, but they can be frustrating due to vague or misleading "tells" with poor timing.

2. The scripted and timed nature of DKCR's stages causes boss battles to be dragged out artificially with lots of "dead time" between major attacks. The worst offender is the mine cart boss. The player ends up standing on his cart for long, dead seconds waiting for the next phase to begin. The problem is that since the bosses are hard, when you die you have to start the entire tiring process over. For a game that's as viciously exciting as DKCR, its bosses feel out of place and work against it.

But bosses aside, the primary stage design is brilliant, and its tough difficulty that expects the player to man up is a breath of fresh air - especially because the stages are so fun to play, dying and restarting is exciting, not discouraging.


I agree that the bosses aren't all that great due to their scripted nature, but in the 4th boss, you don't have to wait for the train to get close to you. You can do a roll jump to make it, even better with diddy kong.




              

hYpnochronic said:

I'm not sure why people are saying co-op is harder.  It's actually easier depending on how you play it, because you gain access to Diddy's peanut pop-gun, which isn't available in single player.  All you have to do is jump on DK's back and it's just like single player with an added attack.  Just go buy more lives from Cranky (up to 99) and you're set.

Presumably, the second player doesn't feel like playing a light-gun game.  I don't know, since I haven't tried co-op myself, but I assume that both players will want to feel like they're playing a platformer, which isn't the case when Diddy's clinging onto Donkey.