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Forums - Sales Discussion - The Official November 2010 NPD Thread

It depends when it declines. But after 2011 we'll likely see new consoles from somebody - Sony will be eager to go first if they're dealing with two Wiis (Wii / Kinect), and two DSs (DS / 3DS). Nintendo will be ready if Japan starts to collapse completely for Wii, or if price cuts / seasonality stop working. Microsoft will be ready if Kinect doesn't have legs or only works in USA / UK / Australia / Canada to boost hw.

By end of year we're looking at something like 84m Wiis, 50m X360s, and 47m PS3s. My impression is Move will cannibalize X360 further in Continental Europe and X360 will continue declining in Japan during 2011. Kinect will cannibalize PS3 in the USA / UK / Australia / Canada. So for 2011, Wii / PS3 will be close in Japan, Wii / X360 will be close in Americas, and in EMEAA various countries will have Wii and X360 close OR Wii and PS3 close, with Wii winning by a bigger margin overall since EMEAA preferences are split.

Continental EMEAA is probably 25% of the X360  market, and Japan is 3% or so. If those both drop off by 20%, Microsoft needs to beat figures in the strong Kinect regions by 6% or so. That's probably doable, but it might not be easy, and the drop off in the weaker regions could be bigger if PS3 drops in price (likely) and if Wii drops in price (one price cut in five years would be madness - two would be simply "good").

No reason to expect X360 to be down much in the USA in 2011, given H1 2010 was fairly weak, but H2 will be hard to match.

Worst case scenario for X360 now is probably:

LTD 2010: 50m

LTD 2011: 59m (Wii / PS3 cheaper)

LTD 2012: 66m (new consoles)

LTD 2013: 69m

LTD 2014: 70m

That'd put it about 13% higher than NES. My main issue with Kinect is it came in too late. PS3 / Wii are very strong competition. By the end of 2011 X360 could probably be as high as 64m if everything went correctly, 75m by end of 2012, 82m by the end of 2013, 86m by the end of 2014, 88m by the end of 2015, and 89m by the end of 2016.

The winning HD console is probably going to get to about where Wii is now - right around 80m. Whats fascinating about Wii is it hasn't declined quickly at all in the West and Nintendo still has a couple effective weapons to spur demand (price cuts, cheaper software pricing, more new bundles, and big game sequels - NSMB Wii 2 in 2011?). Here in the USA its looking like after two decline years, its still going to only be 24% of its peak. Thats nothing - PS2 declined 44% from 2002 to 2004.

If Move doesn't catch on the USA though I don't think its crazy to think X360 could beat PS3 by 15m units, just in the USA. By the time Sony has the opportunity to cut price again PS3 sales will be near 4m over 12 months (down from the 4.9m high) and likely only grow back to 4.5m - 5.5m at a time when X360 may be doing 6m - 7m.



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TheSource said:

It depends when it declines. But after 2011 we'll likely see new consoles from somebody - Sony will be eager to go first if they're dealing with two Wiis (Wii / Kinect) , and two DSs (DS / 3DS).

I'm not entirely sure Sony will want to bring out PS4 in 2 years time, with PS3 only being at mass market price for 1 year, I think Sony will be aiming for some profit in the foreseeable future. PSP2 and PS3 price cut in 2011, and PS4 in 2012 just does not make sense.

Nintendo will be ready if Japan starts to collapse completely for Wii, or if price cuts / seasonality stop working.

Yeah I see Nintendo launching first despite having good sales and likely being on top for 2011/2012. But still, Wii has one major price cut left at least, and it'll ride the waves of that in 2012 with bundles, akin to this holiday, meaning a Wii 2 in 2012 just wouldn't be needed.

Microsoft will be ready if Kinect doesn't have legs or only works in USA / UK / Australia / Canada to boost hw.

Yeah I agree, if Kinect doesn't do above expectations when it drops to $99 next xmas, they will want to swiftly move on. If it does work in those countrys, I don't think MS will mind much about elsewhere. If 360 does 2.5 mill in Dec NPD this year, that'll be 7.5 mill for 2010 in states alone. Those countrys can carry 360.

 

By end of year we're looking at something like 84m Wiis, 50m X360s, and 47m PS3s.

Wot? The PS360 gap is 4.2 mill atm and in 360's favour, if the trend keeps up it'll be reaching 5 mill, unless of course you forsee adjustments?

My impression is Move will cannibalize X360 further in Continental Europe and X360 will continue declining in Japan during 2011.

I'm not entirely sure Move is doing anything tbh .. more so GT5 in CE and just the PS3 generally being strong there.


Kinect will cannibalize PS3 in the USA / UK / Australia / Canada. So for 2011, Wii / PS3 will be close in Japan, Wii / X360 will be close in Americas, and in EMEAA various countries will have Wii and X360 close OR Wii and PS3 close, with Wii winning by a bigger margin overall since EMEAA preferences are split.

Continental EMEAA is probably 25% of the X360  market, and Japan is 3% or so. If those both drop off by 20%, Microsoft needs to beat figures in the strong Kinect regions by 6% or so. That's probably doable, but it might not be easy, and the drop off in the weaker regions could be bigger if PS3 drops in price (likely) and if Wii drops in price (one price cut in five years would be madness - two would be simply "good").

No reason to expect X360 to be down much in the USA in 2011, given H1 2010 was fairly weak, but H2 will be hard to match.

Worst case scenario for X360 now is probably:

LTD 2010: 50m

LTD 2011: 59m (Wii / PS3 cheaper)

LTD 2012: 66m (new consoles)

LTD 2013: 69m

LTD 2014: 70m

NICE, you put some effort into predicting 360 , yeah I agree that looks worst case scenario, good job.

That'd put it about 13% higher than NES. My main issue with Kinect is it came in too late. PS3 / Wii are very strong competition. By the end of 2011 X360 could probably be as high as 64m if everything went correctly, 75m by end of 2012, 82m by the end of 2013, 86m by the end of 2014, 88m by the end of 2015, and 89m by the end of 2016.

Yeah that also seems a likey scenario all going well.

The winning HD console is probably going to get to about where Wii is now - right around 80m. Whats fascinating about Wii is it hasn't declined quickly at all in the West and Nintendo still has a couple effective weapons to spur demand (price cuts, cheaper software pricing, more new bundles, and big game sequels - NSMB Wii 2 in 2011?). Here in the USA its looking like after two decline years, its still going to only be 24% of its peak. Thats nothing - PS2 declined 44% from 2002 to 2004.

I think Wii has proven it's going to come back strong every xmas no matter what the sales are like in the year. Despite being up over PS2, I still don't know if it can beat it (shipped) WW given PS2 is still somehow doing absurd numbers at 10 years in.

If Move doesn't catch on the USA though I don't think its crazy to think X360 could beat PS3 by 15m units, just in the USA.

Lifetime? I see higher than 15 mill. It could hand PS3 a whopping 1.5 mill gap next month alone.

By the time Sony has the opportunity to cut price again PS3 sales will be near 4m over 12 months (down from the 4.9m high) and likely only grow back to 4.5m - 5.5m at a time when X360 may be doing 6m - 7m.

I think 360 in the US can surpass 7m in a 12 month range. It's at 5 mill now, if 3 mill is the upper limit this xmas, then next xmas with price cuts on both peices of HW I see sales MUCH bigger.



 

Can you imagine how dominate 360 would be over PS3 in the U.S. if they'd have had a clean launch quality-wise?  Crazy numbers. 



Can't we all just get along and play our games in peace?

Black Ops (360): 4.9 million

Black Ops (PS3): 3.1 million

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/31995/Exclusive_Black_Ops_For_Xbox_360_Sells_Nearly_5_Million_In_US.php



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4. Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2
5. Super Street Fighter 4

I wonder if Wii can outsell PS2 in the US?  Has DS done it yet?



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jarrod said:

I wonder if Wii can outsell PS2 in the US?  Has DS done it yet?

We can't know untill Ps2 numbers are adjusted.



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Pavolink said:
jarrod said:

I wonder if Wii can outsell PS2 in the US?  Has DS done it yet?

We can't know untill Ps2 numbers are adjusted.


NPD thread.



 

postofficebuddy said:

Black Ops (360): 4.9 million

Black Ops (PS3): 3.1 million

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/31995/Exclusive_Black_Ops_For_Xbox_360_Sells_Nearly_5_Million_In_US.php

yeah I think ioi already adjusted it (at least the 360 version)

It's at 5.7m first week (all regions) and 5.5m LTD in Americas.



postofficebuddy said:

Black Ops (360): 4.9 million

Black Ops (PS3): 3.1 million

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/31995/Exclusive_Black_Ops_For_Xbox_360_Sells_Nearly_5_Million_In_US.php

someone will open a thread when PS3 version get adjustment because ____ beat____in first week



Would be really really nice if the 360 can do 2 million in the USA this Dec.  That would be shocking for a system so old and for many here who think its over the hill.

 

GO 360!!



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