By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - Atheits ... How Many On VGChartz ?

kevin the wiiite said:
kevin the wiiite said:
ManusJustus said:

If you want to understand science you are going to have to stop going to the religious conferences in crazy town.  Limbs or lungs just don't pop into an species genome, its takes a long time for a gene to slowly change.

Just look at the fossil record.  You can easily see humans, horses, you name it slowly changing over millions of years.  No new limbs or eyes, just changes to the expression of these genes.  But how do complex organs like eyes develop?  The same way, just with more time (and faster generation lifecycles don't hurt).  Eyes use to be light-sensitive cells, the same process that even the simplest of organisms have today as its actually a very common stimuli.  Over millions and millions of years those light sensitive cells continued to develop into something more and more complex.

Please, before you go any further with the science, explain your reasoning for the slowly changing fossil record to me.

Great, you just insulted the best geneticists in the world.  I'm pretty sure the head of the human genome project was there.  No, the conference wasn't out of crazy town.  It was an exposition of programs that display genetic data in laymans terms.  They didn't do the math there, but they gave some simple numbers.

I'm pretty sure most of that post wasn't said at any real genetics conference, because it fundamentally misunderstands genetics. Perhaps the 300 mutations per 6B base pairs is the bit that was real, the entire thing about how they have to be strung along one after the other was complete rubbish.

The way you're saying things evolve would infer that multiple systems were evolving at the same time, and the fossil record (the way you see it) clearly shows organ systems evolving at different times.

This just isn't true, the fossil record clearly shows that animals evolved as a whole. Man didn't start walking on two legs and then grow a bigger brain, both things evolved at the same time.

Also, the entire time the systems are evolving parts of them would be nonfunctional, and we definitely don't see fossils of animals with multiple nonfunctional organ systems, let alone one.

Once again you don't understand evolution. At no point in evolution is an evolving organ non-functional - at every point the organ is slightly more functional in its environment than it was in the last iteration. See the picture I posted on the evolution of the eye for example.

And yes, the earth isn't a closed system, but the universe definitely is.  Conservation of Energy anyone?  Sorters have a designer, which allows them to increase entropy.  The sorter itself still breaks down over time because it itself needs a sorter.  Hey look, now we just have to settle the infinite aliens theory.  Don't really consider worthy of logical discussion.

Two things, the universe is a closed system and therefore the entropy of the whole universe needs to increase. There can be pockets within the universe of decreasing entropy.

Also the second law of thermodynamics applies to sorters as well, and sorters don't break the law (once again due to the closed system thing).







Around the Network
Bobbuffalo said:
tolu619 said:
Bobbuffalo said:

You can never ever beat a religious/believer for the simple reason that they base their arguments in plain bellief. 

They will always try to paint atheists in their same light  but that's just absurd because atheist we don't base our arguments in plain belief. We make questions, find answers and if an answer is proved wrong then we keep looking for it. Religious people only believe and say that they don't need proof because that will make them question their old ancient books full of horrible fairy tales. You can give them all the proofs you have but they will always find a way to twist it and make on fall in ridiculous.

We atheist better never argue with them because Just like a little kid that believes in santa claus and refuses to accept the truth that their parents buy the presents, religious people would never accept the truth that God is nothing but an imaginary friend that makes them happy even if that happiness has a fragile logic.

Oh my........that is SOOOOO wrong! I made questions, I got answers and I got PROOF that God exists! I do NEED proof for my beliefs! And I have more than enough proof by experience! Yes, experience. But I've come to realise that any experience I've had with God that I tell an atheist about, if they realise they can't explain it away, they conclude that I'm making it up. So after saying all I can, I live the rest to God for Him to decide how he wants to make them experience Him for themselves.

Ah really? have you talked with it? saw it? listened to it? touched it? No. you WANT to think that you "experienced" it in any way you want to twist.. But you have no proof. Simple like that.


actually, YES. and regularly too.



http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7530/gohansupersaiyan239du.jpg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"> http://www.deviantart.com/download/109426596/Shippuden_Team_7_by_Tsubaki_chan.jpg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"> http://image.hotdog.hu/_data/members0/772/1047772/images/kepek_illusztraciok/Bleach%2520-%2520Ishida%2520Uryuu%25201.jpg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash">

3DS: tolu619

Wii U: FoyehBoys

Vita, PS3 and PS4: FoyehBoys

XBoxOne: Tolu619

Switch: Tolu619

Kugali - We publish comics from all across Africa and the diaspora, and we also push the boundaries of Augmented Reality storytelling. Check us out!

My thread for teaching VGC some Nigerian slangs

leatherhat said:

Atheists are people that bust religious peoples balls over believing in God when there is no proof, completely forgetting that there is no proof God doesn't exist as well.

Religious peoples are people that bust Atheists  balls over not believing in God when there is no proof, completely forgetting that there is no proof God does exist as well.

See what I did there? It comes from both sides, its not just one side you know. Both believe in something, atheists don`t need perfect proof that god doesn`t exist exist while believers don`t need proof that he does. They both have their own beliefs, though atheists don`t wake me up at 8 AM to tell me about how he doesn`t exist and about how I will go to hell if I believe. And that ain`t pleasant when you just had a night shift.

Both have their own ''proof'' and reasons for believing, you hearing gods voice is proof for you, but it ain`t for me. < <<<example.


And besides, there are things that point to the bible and other books being wrong according to some researches. Its called evolution and the big bang theory. There might be a god, but i don`t think any religion has the correct book or knowledge. I know god didn`t create the world in seven days like the bible says, though It might be a metaphor of some kind, but I do believe most people take religion the wrong way. People probably take it too literally. At least that's what I believe.



tolu619 said:
Bobbuffalo said:

Ah really? have you talked with it? saw it? listened to it? touched it? No. you WANT to think that you "experienced" it in any way you want to twist.. But you have no proof. Simple like that.


actually, YES. and regularly too.

Okay then I have some questions (btw this isn't only aimed at you but also to others who say they talk to god):

So if what you say is true, why is it that you hear/see god, when many other people don't? How come god doesn't answer to a lot of people who pray with all their hearts in times of crisis? There's no way a god would speak only to a chosen few and leave everyone else out, that doesn't fit.



lolita said:
tolu619 said:
Bobbuffalo said:

Ah really? have you talked with it? saw it? listened to it? touched it? No. you WANT to think that you "experienced" it in any way you want to twist.. But you have no proof. Simple like that.


actually, YES. and regularly too.

Okay then I have some questions (btw this isn't only aimed at you but also to others who say they talk to god):

So if what you say is true, why is it that you hear/see god, when many other people don't? How come god doesn't answer to a lot of people who pray with all their hearts in times of crisis? There's no way a god would speak only to a chosen few and leave everyone else out, that doesn't fit.


One answer I've seen is that if God made his existence certain to all people, he would limit the free action of people. Under this view, free will is a competition between good and bad desires. Believe in God makes the desire to do good significantly outweigh the desire to do bad. People have a disposition to do good out of respect for God. Naurally, becasue the desire to do good significantly outweighs the desire to do bad, the moral action of a person who is certain of God's existence has less moral worth than an agnostic because the beiever has a natural disposition to perform the right action (because of their respect for God). People who lack certainty in God's existence balance more towards doing the bad than the good action, so when they make the good action, their actions have more moral worth because they are combating more bad desires than the certain believer. The point is that God, by witholding his presence, allows for greater moral actions to take place.



Around the Network

im catholic agnostic



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
Amazing discussion about being wrong
Official VGChartz Folding@Home Team #109453
 

Where is your god now?



ocean-1984 said:

Where is your god now?


ok, so i will admit it. Kratos is the god I warship. Screw every other god, they are pansies compared to Kratos.



PC gaming is better than console gaming. Always.     We are Anonymous, We are Legion    Kick-ass interview   Great Flash Series Here    Anime Ratings     Make and Play Please
Amazing discussion about being wrong
Official VGChartz Folding@Home Team #109453
 
tolu619 said:
Bobbuffalo said:
tolu619 said:
Bobbuffalo said:

You can never ever beat a religious/believer for the simple reason that they base their arguments in plain bellief. 

They will always try to paint atheists in their same light  but that's just absurd because atheist we don't base our arguments in plain belief. We make questions, find answers and if an answer is proved wrong then we keep looking for it. Religious people only believe and say that they don't need proof because that will make them question their old ancient books full of horrible fairy tales. You can give them all the proofs you have but they will always find a way to twist it and make on fall in ridiculous.

We atheist better never argue with them because Just like a little kid that believes in santa claus and refuses to accept the truth that their parents buy the presents, religious people would never accept the truth that God is nothing but an imaginary friend that makes them happy even if that happiness has a fragile logic.

Oh my........that is SOOOOO wrong! I made questions, I got answers and I got PROOF that God exists! I do NEED proof for my beliefs! And I have more than enough proof by experience! Yes, experience. But I've come to realise that any experience I've had with God that I tell an atheist about, if they realise they can't explain it away, they conclude that I'm making it up. So after saying all I can, I live the rest to God for Him to decide how he wants to make them experience Him for themselves.

Ah really? have you talked with it? saw it? listened to it? touched it? No. you WANT to think that you "experienced" it in any way you want to twist.. But you have no proof. Simple like that.


actually, YES. and regularly too.

Can you describe some of your experiences with god? I'd like to know :)



GameOver22 said:
lolita said:
tolu619 said:
Bobbuffalo said:

Ah really? have you talked with it? saw it? listened to it? touched it? No. you WANT to think that you "experienced" it in any way you want to twist.. But you have no proof. Simple like that.


actually, YES. and regularly too.

Okay then I have some questions (btw this isn't only aimed at you but also to others who say they talk to god):

So if what you say is true, why is it that you hear/see god, when many other people don't? How come god doesn't answer to a lot of people who pray with all their hearts in times of crisis? There's no way a god would speak only to a chosen few and leave everyone else out, that doesn't fit.


One answer I've seen is that if God made his existence certain to all people, he would limit the free action of people. Under this view, free will is a competition between good and bad desires. Believe in God makes the desire to do good significantly outweigh the desire to do bad. People have a disposition to do good out of respect for God. Naurally, becasue the desire to do good significantly outweighs the desire to do bad, the moral action of a person who is certain of God's existence has less moral worth than an agnostic because the beiever has a natural disposition to perform the right action (because of their respect for God). People who lack certainty in God's existence balance more towards doing the bad than the good action, so when they make the good action, their actions have more moral worth because they are combating more bad desires than the certain believer. The point is that God, by witholding his presence, allows for greater moral actions to take place.


God doesn't 'choose' who to talk to, we are the ones that choose whether or not to listen. Just like it's very possible for one to talk to someone without even listening to what the other person is saying, it's also possible to pray to God without listening to his reply. And just like one wouldn't give his kids every single thing they ask for, for reasons best known to him(the parent), God can't answer all our prayers.

    In the Bible, he answered Daniel's prayer but the answer didn't actually get to Daniel until 3 weeks after it was sent, and it was simply because of demonic opposition that Daniel had to pray hard to overcome. You don't have to believe any of this, I'm just trying to answer the question to the best of my knowledge of my beliefs.

     Let me just say for the record that what makes me 100% sure that even if it wasn't God that spoke to me, then it was some spirit trying to deceive me(LOL!) is that there are many things I've been told that I couldn't possibly have known, only for a handful of people to be told the exact same thing, which they also couldn't have known otherwise. I tell my atheist friends some of these experiences, and when it seems too accurate to be coincidence(since more than 2 people were involved) , they just assume I made it up. :(



http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7530/gohansupersaiyan239du.jpg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"> http://www.deviantart.com/download/109426596/Shippuden_Team_7_by_Tsubaki_chan.jpg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"> http://image.hotdog.hu/_data/members0/772/1047772/images/kepek_illusztraciok/Bleach%2520-%2520Ishida%2520Uryuu%25201.jpg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash">

3DS: tolu619

Wii U: FoyehBoys

Vita, PS3 and PS4: FoyehBoys

XBoxOne: Tolu619

Switch: Tolu619

Kugali - We publish comics from all across Africa and the diaspora, and we also push the boundaries of Augmented Reality storytelling. Check us out!

My thread for teaching VGC some Nigerian slangs