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Forums - General Discussion - Flat tax rate system should be enforced now.

 

Flat tax rate system should be enforced now.

Sounds like a fair tax system. Sign me up!!! 22 24.44%
 
Another crazy numonex thread!!! 13 14.44%
 
You have got to be kidding me!!! 48 53.33%
 
Candy!!! 7 7.78%
 
Total:90
Killiana1a said:

Caring about people in other countries is a luxury CEOS who have outsourced the jobs of people in their own country and bleeding heart liberals who feel pain everytime they see a Sally Struthers commercial for aid to Africa.

I am neither and a nationalist first when it comes to economic policy. So long as there are homeless and unemployed worthy of a job here in the US, then to hell with another in China who would gladly take their or my job.

I can agree with this. However, the way to get people to work in America is to make the jobs 'cheaper'. That is, take away the atrocious tax system that works against hiring people in America. For example, Obamacare means that I, as a business owner, have to pay more money in tax compliances to hire people in the US. When I hire in the US, I have to spend a ton of money in both time (which costs me money) and taxes to keep that person. If we reduced the burden to business when they hire, no one would be unemployed. Not unless they didn't want to work.

You are referring to the Smoot-Hawley Tariff of 1930 between the US and Europe. Funny thing is, the stock market collapse of 1929 came first. Saying Smoot-Hawley Act of 1930 caused the Great Depression is akin to blaming TARP and Obama's stimulus as the reason for this current global recession.

The stock market crash came on the day that they started debating Smoot-Hawley....Some say as a result of them actually deciding to take up debate on the atrocious act. Furthermore, the stock market crash did not cause the massive unemployment and financial woes associated with the Great Depression. The great depression was fueled by 2 things: Bank collapses due to the federal reserve, and Smoot-Hawley killing jobs.

The truth is more in the middle, where the economy of the 2000s was structurally weak with a real estate bubble coinciding with an earlier dot com bubble all under the watch of an Ayn Rand fanatic at the head of the Federal Reserve by the name of Alan Greenspan.

The woes of the 2000s were not caused by Mr. Greenspan. Furthermore, I would say that the scum called Bernake is 10x worse. Don't get me wrong, I dislike Greenspan as I believe the federal reserve has far too much power, but he wasn't the culprit so much as other government programs like CRA1999.

Here is what I see as the structural problems in the US economy:

1. Higher Education insensitive and detached from the private sector putting out too many liberal arts majors to become baristas at Starbucks, while what we really need are more engineers, scientists, urban planners, health managers, and on.

2. The largest segment of the US population (Baby Boomers) aging and retiring imposing a huge entitlement burden on Social Security, public employees pensions and Medicare.

3. Federal and State governments running up deficits to pay for insolvent entitlement programs (Social Security, public employee pensions, and Medicare).

4. Overreach of US foreign policy. We have too many troops engaged in wars that do not directly benefit US citizens. Instead they are fighting for abstract causes such as "freedom and liberty," all the while costing hundreds of billions of dollars annually.

5. Lack of a broad skilled, blue collar worker base. Since the 1980s and particularly since NAFTA in 1996, we have been transitioning into service sector economy where the bulk of jobs are in the low wage service sector who service the upper income, so-called "creative class," leading to a hollowing out of the middle class.

Generally agree. The only thing I would critique is that its not the private sector's fault for most of the woes you mention. The majority - wars, outsourcing, entitlement programs, ect, are all from and by the government. If you wanted to create a better workforce, I'd start with offering vouchers to every child to go to the school of their choice. Better schools would be created that had a better focus on core skills that result in a population better attuned for things like maths and sciences....As opposed to the garbage we have today. School standards are abysmal in the US - ask any European that comes here on a student exchange program.

I think I have the bases covered except for a few wonky monetary aspects.





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Yes, certainly, most of those problems in the US are created by government policy and government workers.  But the voters select the elected officials so they have some blame in this.  The way the average American voter votes, it's like they don't want to live in a better world.  They are likely just ignorant of reality.



 

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The Ghost of RubangB said:
ramses01 said:
Rath said:

A flat tax is basically 'lets fuck the poor so the rich get richer'. It's obvious that the poor can't afford to have as much of their income taxed as the rich can. A flat tax is not a 'fair' tax, it's a blatantly unfair tax when you consider quality of life, it essentially means that the rich will be able to live a better quality of life than the good one they currently have and the poor will be able to live a worse quality of life than the poor one they currently have. Because widening the wealth gap is what everyone wants right?

Also relying on charity doesn't work. Charity is nice, but it's not thorough.

 

Finally the 'trickle down' effect is complete rubbish, it doesn't trickle down, it just pools at the top.

This is complete and utter nonesense.  The flat tax is the only fair tax.  If you want to have segmented tax rates, then the poor should pay a HIGHER tax rate than the rich as they consume a disportionate amount of the services.  If the poor can't afford the taxes then they should get better jobs, it is as simple as that.

Who has more to gain from funding a military that protects America's oil and trade interests?  The poor or the rich?

Who has more to gain from funding roads and bridges to ensure the safe delivery of goods across the country?  The poor or the rich?

Who has more to gain from funding education and health care so they can have an educated healthy pool of workers to hire from?  The poor or the rich?

Who has more to gain from funding the bailout?  The poor or the rich assholes on Wall Street that got us into this mess?

etc. etc. etc.

Rich people get more out of America (or any stable government and economy for that matter), so they should put more back in.

Well, with your school remark, the people that get the most out of school are actually the people that strive to get the most out of it.  It is one's own fault if they did not try in school and could not do something as simple as getting at least semi-decent grades (C's and better).  I have to laugh, there was a kid in my high school wanted me to help him with math, because he has lots of trouble on it.  I decided, sure, I'll do a good thing.  Next day, he's texting in class.  No more tutoring him by me.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

numonex said:

Flat tax rate system should be enforced now. 20% tax rate on every dollar you earn. Fair simple tax system.

Government only provides Police services and military services. Both health and Education are fully privatised and run by free market system. Charity replaces social security system. Aged pensions are self funded, not from government. Water and utilities are provided by private enterprises, no government monopolies. 

No discrimination on socio-economic background. More jobs would be created and everyone would be better off. 

The 20% flat tax rate applies to all  individuals and all companies. A flat tax rate system applying to companies and individuals would be fair and reasonable. Conservative Libertarians would be over the moon with the implementation of a flat tax rate system. 

How about a flat tax rate system? 


I hope you're serious, because I agree with that completely.



Joelcool7 said:

 Also I think the rich should be taxed more. They are gaining more from your society so they should give more back.


So in what way do the rich get more from society? The rich have the same roads as the poor, the rich have the same hospitals as the poor, the rich have the same police/fire services as the poor. So where do the rich get more?

The rich get less if anything. Prime example is how my Grandpa worked his entire life and since he made too much money in his life he wasn't eligible to get his pension, which should have been rightfully his since he paid for it. By the way he was self made, he worked his way up from a low level employee at a lumberyard to owning his own lumber business. He wasn't "given everything" like all the poor people say about the rich.



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HappySqurriel said:
Hapimeses said:

Indeed, I think it's unfair that the comfortably rich can't be even richer. After all, just how many millions are enough? There's no limit, obviously.


Except for the fact that people who have millions of dollars tend not to pay income tax at all


edit: nm read it wrong



Jereel Hunter said:
numonex said:

 

You wanna make society more class-based than it is now? This is how.


So your conclusion is by making things more equal...its really less equal?

A flat tax rate is the fairest (most equal) thing for everyone. Now while I don't agree everything should be privatized (most things should though), I do agree that a flat tax rate is a great idea. 

 

My solution to the privatization issue is a two-tiered system for things like education, health care, etc. I know its a terrible comparison, but kind of like Playstation plus. So everyone would get adequate free health care/education/services...but people if they have the money can opt to pay extra for their services and receive higher quality services.

So say two people are lined up at the hospital for a kidney transplant, a poor man and a rich man, but it will be a 1 month wait for the surgery. Well in that case the rich man can pull out his cheque book and pay to jump ahead in line and get his transplant right away, while the poor man who will get it for free has to wait the month.

I think something like that is perfectly fair because then the lower class will get the adequate health care they are somehow "entitled" to in todays society, while the middle and upper class can pay for theirs and get premium care.



Baalzamon said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
ramses01 said:
Rath said:

A flat tax is basically 'lets fuck the poor so the rich get richer'. It's obvious that the poor can't afford to have as much of their income taxed as the rich can. A flat tax is not a 'fair' tax, it's a blatantly unfair tax when you consider quality of life, it essentially means that the rich will be able to live a better quality of life than the good one they currently have and the poor will be able to live a worse quality of life than the poor one they currently have. Because widening the wealth gap is what everyone wants right?

Also relying on charity doesn't work. Charity is nice, but it's not thorough.

 

Finally the 'trickle down' effect is complete rubbish, it doesn't trickle down, it just pools at the top.

This is complete and utter nonesense.  The flat tax is the only fair tax.  If you want to have segmented tax rates, then the poor should pay a HIGHER tax rate than the rich as they consume a disportionate amount of the services.  If the poor can't afford the taxes then they should get better jobs, it is as simple as that.

Who has more to gain from funding a military that protects America's oil and trade interests?  The poor or the rich?

Who has more to gain from funding roads and bridges to ensure the safe delivery of goods across the country?  The poor or the rich?

Who has more to gain from funding education and health care so they can have an educated healthy pool of workers to hire from?  The poor or the rich?

Who has more to gain from funding the bailout?  The poor or the rich assholes on Wall Street that got us into this mess?

etc. etc. etc.

Rich people get more out of America (or any stable government and economy for that matter), so they should put more back in.

Well, with your school remark, the people that get the most out of school are actually the people that strive to get the most out of it.  It is one's own fault if they did not try in school and could not do something as simple as getting at least semi-decent grades (C's and better).  I have to laugh, there was a kid in my high school wanted me to help him with math, because he has lots of trouble on it.  I decided, sure, I'll do a good thing.  Next day, he's texting in class.  No more tutoring him by me.


You sound a lot like the people who think the unemployed are lazy and just don't feel like working. And do you honestly think making the poor pay more taxes and the rich pay less than them will help our economy?



Baalzamon said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
ramses01 said:
Rath said:

A flat tax is basically 'lets fuck the poor so the rich get richer'. It's obvious that the poor can't afford to have as much of their income taxed as the rich can. A flat tax is not a 'fair' tax, it's a blatantly unfair tax when you consider quality of life, it essentially means that the rich will be able to live a better quality of life than the good one they currently have and the poor will be able to live a worse quality of life than the poor one they currently have. Because widening the wealth gap is what everyone wants right?

Also relying on charity doesn't work. Charity is nice, but it's not thorough.

 

Finally the 'trickle down' effect is complete rubbish, it doesn't trickle down, it just pools at the top.

This is complete and utter nonesense.  The flat tax is the only fair tax.  If you want to have segmented tax rates, then the poor should pay a HIGHER tax rate than the rich as they consume a disportionate amount of the services.  If the poor can't afford the taxes then they should get better jobs, it is as simple as that.

Who has more to gain from funding a military that protects America's oil and trade interests?  The poor or the rich?

Who has more to gain from funding roads and bridges to ensure the safe delivery of goods across the country?  The poor or the rich?

Who has more to gain from funding education and health care so they can have an educated healthy pool of workers to hire from?  The poor or the rich?

Who has more to gain from funding the bailout?  The poor or the rich assholes on Wall Street that got us into this mess?

etc. etc. etc.

Rich people get more out of America (or any stable government and economy for that matter), so they should put more back in.

Well, with your school remark, the people that get the most out of school are actually the people that strive to get the most out of it.  It is one's own fault if they did not try in school and could not do something as simple as getting at least semi-decent grades (C's and better).  I have to laugh, there was a kid in my high school wanted me to help him with math, because he has lots of trouble on it.  I decided, sure, I'll do a good thing.  Next day, he's texting in class.  No more tutoring him by me.

right, it never has anything to do with the fact that schools are paid for by property taxes.  It has nothing to do with the fact that schools in poor areas are severely underfunded.  Just blame the poor for being lazy. 



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

FreeTalkLive said:

Yes, certainly, most of those problems in the US are created by government policy and government workers.  But the voters select the elected officials so they have some blame in this.  The way the average American voter votes, it's like they don't want to live in a better world.  They are likely just ignorant of reality.

this is simply not true though.  The illusion of choice is ridiculous.  You can choose from 2 extremely similar candidates that get all the funding from the parties that are backed by corporations and corporation agenda.  They just end up ignoring public opinion whenever it doesn't fit their agenda anyways.  If politics was actually decided by the american people this would be a completely different country right now.  Just look at the tax cuts for the rich being passed right now with 69% of Americans opposed.  You call that representing the people?  



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X