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Forums - Gaming Discussion - How important is good storytelling for game sales, popularity & longevity?

Before I begin, I want to say storytelling here refers to everything connected with telling a story.  It isn't only the execution of the telling, complete with cinematic direction, good voice acting and dialog, and other things noted in stories and movies, but the fact the story is good.

In the off and on checking of the best-selling games, particularly the most recent sales numbers (see here);

http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php

The closest game I can see anyone arguing for would be a Grand Theft Auto title at 16 (as of my writing this).  Outside of that, I don't see where people would argue that Super Mario Bros. is great storytelling, not a cart game.  And GTA is a sandbox game, which then argues people get into it to do mayhem, so then I drop down to Modern Warfare 2, and isn't that noted for the multiplayer?  Would anyone argue that the single player for that had great storytelling?  Oh I personally can say it executed well, but the story stunk with a lot of loopholes and an inane plot twist that made no sense.  And World of Warcraft?  That is an MMO with a developed world, but what story is it trying to tell?  And then Halo?  Isn't that just for the multiplayer? 

Ok, then we get to Final Fantasy VII, which I can say is argued to be real good storytelling.  It is in the 40s currently.  Did I miss anything else here?  Anything higher than Final Fantasy VII in more sales, because of storytelling?

Ok, that is sales, but how about longevity? What games can you name that have longevity in replaying, because of good storytelling?  What games get replayed because the storytelling is real good? 

Lastly, it is tricky to separate  sales numbers and longevity from popularity.  I guess here would be the cultural impact that a game has.  I do see this more so, such as God of War getting its own 7-11 drink like Halo.  Cosplay has people dressing up as a number characters from different games, so maybe this would be a place where you see an impact of good storytelling.

So, in short, anyone have their own thoughts on this?  I would argue that storytelling may have an impact on popularity of characters, but not as much in regards to replaying a game, or sales.  Anyone else care to give input here?



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for me storytelling is the most important thing , that;s why i love rpgs and ffs



richardhutnik said:

Before I begin, I want to say storytelling here refers to everything connected with telling a story.  It isn't only the execution of the telling, complete with cinematic direction, good voice acting and dialog, and other things noted in stories and movies, but the fact the story is good.

In the off and on checking of the best-selling games, particularly the most recent sales numbers (see here);

http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php

The closest game I can see anyone arguing for would be a Grand Theft Auto title at 16 (as of my writing this).  Outside of that, I don't see where people would argue that Super Mario Bros. is great storytelling, not a cart game.  And GTA is a sandbox game, which then argues people get into it to do mayhem, so then I drop down to Modern Warfare 2, and isn't that noted for the multiplayer?  Would anyone argue that the single player for that had great storytelling?  Oh I personally can say it executed well, but the story stunk with a lot of loopholes and an inane plot twist that made no sense.  And World of Warcraft?  That is an MMO with a developed world, but what story is it trying to tell?  And then Halo?  Isn't that just for the multiplayer? 

Ok, then we get to Final Fantasy VII, which I can say is argued to be real good storytelling.  It is in the 40s currently.  Did I miss anything else here?  Anything higher than Final Fantasy VII in more sales, because of storytelling?

Ok, that is sales, but how about longevity? What games can you name that have longevity in replaying, because of good storytelling?  What games get replayed because the storytelling is real good? 

Lastly, it is tricky to separate  sales numbers and longevity from popularity.  I guess here would be the cultural impact that a game has.  I do see this more so, such as God of War getting its own 7-11 drink like Halo.  Cosplay has people dressing up as a number characters from different games, so maybe this would be a place where you see an impact of good storytelling.

So, in short, anyone have their own thoughts on this?  I would argue that storytelling may have an impact on popularity of characters, but not as much in regards to replaying a game, or sales.  Anyone else care to give input here?

I won't speak about sales, but I routinely replay games such as Psychonauts, HL 1 and 2, ICO, SOtC, Uncharted 2, Planescape, Zelda: OOT and MM because of their storytelling.

I even fire up emulators to play textual adventure games from Infocom and Magnetic Scrolls.

Not with the same rhythm with which I can replay a pick-up and play arcade title, but still enough that I would never sell them - because I know I'll replay them when the right tickle comes up, just as I re-read my books and re-watch my movies.

I'm the first to admit that I'm probably in a niche together with my friends who do the same, but it's a very solid hard core stemming more from computer gaming of yore than by arcade or console history.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

While I think there is a skew to MP & simple gaming action over storytelling for longivity and popularity, if the story is good combined with a good game then I think it can still help.  Red Dead Redemption and Assassin's Creed 2 come to mind here.  While neither will trouble Shakespear they are both helped by a combination of strong character, compelling setting and a narrative that hooks most people pretty well.

I think that, the usual arguments abouts games as art, etc aside, most people do play games as games - i.e. the emphasis is on the gameplay aspects, and particularly in the West I do think a lot of people see longivity in MP and would rather play the same map over and over again vs people in a pure gameplay environment than, for example, replay a story driven game a few times.

That said, there are plenty of people who will replay a game to re-experience something the same way they'll rewatch a movie.  For example, I still think the opening chapter of Half Life 2 is one of the best in an SP campaign ever, and I'll still on occasion boot it up and replay it just to realise how effective it is (and I guess to lament how many SP campaigns have come since and failed to even come close to it in skillful setup).

So as ever it's shades of grey vs black and white.  I do think story can result in longivity in sales, just not quite as often as MP and DLC and a big brand franchise currently, particularly in the Western markets.

I personally prefer story/narrative driven games, so I hope they stick around.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

For me story isn't the most important factor, but it is 'up there' as a very important factor for suitable games.  Some games I don't care about the story (Mario comes to mind)




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Reasonable said:

So as ever it's shades of grey vs black and white.  I do think story can result in longivity in sales, just not quite as often as MP and DLC and a big brand franchise currently, particularly in the Western markets.

I personally prefer story/narrative driven games, so I hope they stick around.

I am curious, from a business perspective, if the videogame industry is best served throwing more and more money into increasing the production value of the storytelling side, in order to get people interested in a game.  Like, hiring the cast they did to being in a Call of Duty title, is it worth it?  Or would the money be better spend on adding more gameplay modes, polishing graphics, and tweaking things such as AI?  I have seen a drive to push more and more the Hollywood angle to games, to try to make them more like a movie-like experience ("movie-like" was a term I was going to use for storytelling) when adding all that drives up the costs a LOT.  For example, the new Star Wars MMO is clocking in at a MONSTER price tag ($300 million plus) in development.  They are adding things like giving every NPC in the game a voice, done by voice actors.  This is likely for immersion effect, and improving the storytelling side of things.  Is it worth it?



Depends all on the gamer imo. FF7 came at a different time, where the graphics and the easy/ accessible gameplay allowed played to adapt to the style (which was consequently a lot of fun). imo the reason other FF titles have not acheived the same success is because of the more complex and more difficult gameplay systems, FF8 and FF12 support this imo.

however clearly story is not that important these days, case in point Enslaved, which appears to have been a disaster unfortunatly. and GTA games, while have very good storys and good characters i dont think are played for the story. i think they're mainly played for the cars, and the action, sandbox style freedom etc.

i like games with interesting stories, but imo thats not what sells these days. to an extent games like MGS1 and FF7 changed that, but the legacy of those particular franchises has dwindled imo and while games like Alan Wake, Heavy Rain or Enslaved do tell complelling stories, they're not selling millions unfortunatly.



A203D said:

Depends all on the gamer imo. FF7 came at a different time, where the graphics and the easy/ accessible gameplay allowed played to adapt to the style (which was consequently a lot of fun). imo the reason other FF titles have not acheived the same success is because of the more complex and more difficult gameplay systems, FF8 and FF12 support this imo.

however clearly story is not that important these days, case in point Enslaved, which appears to have been a disaster unfortunatly. and GTA games, while have very good storys and good characters i dont think are played for the story. i think they're mainly played for the cars, and the action, sandbox style freedom etc.

i like games with interesting stories, but imo thats not what sells these days. to an extent games like MGS1 and FF7 changed that, but the legacy of those particular franchises has dwindled imo and while games like Alan Wake, Heavy Rain or Enslaved do tell complelling stories, they're not selling millions unfortunatly.

So, then another question here is whether story is best to be the driving point for a game, or is it something that merely adds value to games, that can help?  If it is the later, then would the things best be served by just doing enough of a story to make the game work?  How much is gained by a game, if you hire a-level actors to read the lines and spend a ton of money to have Anthony Hopkins do hours of dialog in a game?  I remember how Zero Punctuation guy complained how Liam Neason (sp) only did a brief bit of dialog in Fallout 3.  Would the game been better served if he did a LOT more dialog?



richardhutnik said:

So, then another question here is whether story is best to be the driving point for a game, or is it something that merely adds value to games, that can help?  If it is the later, then would the things best be served by just doing enough of a story to make the game work?  How much is gained by a game, if you hire a-level actors to read the lines and spend a ton of money to have Anthony Hopkins do hours of dialog in a game?  I remember how Zero Punctuation guy complained how Liam Neason (sp) only did a brief bit of dialog in Fallout 3.  Would the game been better served if he did a LOT more dialog?

You're mixing up high production values with being story-centered, here.

Psychonauts or Grim Fandango lived and are rememberd for their setting, plot, characters. Not for their game mechanics, nor for their production values. You can discuss how having higher or lower investments in things like voice overs or visual arts is a good investment or not in the business sense, but that has little to do wih the fact that the storytelling is the backbone of a given game.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

Some people actually thought the GTA IV story was "Oscar worthy"...

(I actually like GTA IV's story (other stuff less so))

Most games that sell loads do so because it's popular among casual gamers, who don't really care for a story. That's the case with Mario Kart, but also Call of Duty and even GTA. The majority of people that buy GTA do so to walk around the city and beat people up.