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Forums - General Discussion - The NBA discussion thread

Kasz216 on 11 November 2010
Bladeneo said:
Kasz216 said:
Bladeneo said:
Kasz216 said:
Bladeneo said:

The fact is the Cavs gave up draft picks left right and centre to acquire subpar players and didn't expect it to come back and bite them. Are you telling me other teams didn't make big moves during those seasons? Ray Allen (and glen davis) went to the Celtics for Szczerbiak, West and Jeff Greene! I think we remember where two of those players have played, Pau Gasol was traded for what amounted to a snickers and about $12 in change.

I even forgot about Larry Hughes; the Cavs had nothing to trade with because they took awful, AWFUL contracts and were so strapped for cash even with Lebron earning 5 million a year in 2006. 

Except... they didn't give up draft picks left right and center? 

Larry Hughes they signed as a free agent.

They got Wallace and Sczerbiak in a trade that involved NO draftpicks.

They got Gooden in a deal that netted Varejao AND 2 draft picks.

They traded away a total of 3 picks in 7 years... but also traded for a pick.

So, they traded a way a total of 2 draft picks.


Getting good players in steals has little to do with "wanting" them and more with having the right number of expiring contracts at the right year.  Which by the way the Celtics had when they got ray allen.

You may be a fan of the game, but it's pretty clear you don't know much about the salary cap/trade portion of it.

I'd call not having a first round pick in 2005 or 2007, and trading away Shannon Brown who was drafted in 2008, pretty disappointing draft policy. 

It's irrelevant what you think I know about the salary cap or trading, that has absolutely nothing to do with me being able to recognize trading away Gooden, Hughes and Shannon Brown (now a key piece off the Lakers bench) for an aging, ineffective Ben Wallace  was a bad choice. I can't disagree with the Szczerbiak trade that much because Delonte West was worth Donyell Marshall and Ira Newble. But whatever, you can just go back to insulting my intelligence I guess. 

You do know that was the same trade right?

It was a 3 way trade... and Gooden and Hughes were horrible.


I realise that, yes, but I was evaluating the two separate sections to the deal. West is the only good thing from that trade, so it was terrible. Hughes and Gooden were horrible yes, but Wallace and Szczerbiak were just as bad. 

No they weren't?  They were both upgrades.  

Also Joe Smith was very solid... and neither trade would of happened without the other.


Upgrades? They certainly didn't play like upgrades, Szczerbiak certainly upgraded the Cavs wide open 3 point misses I guess. Smith was solid I agree, but nothing more than that. 

Although, to comment on your edit before, I wouldn't say Shannon Brown sucks - Phil Jackson certainly doesn't think so. there's more to a player than his statistics. 

You don't usually go around badmouthing players on your team as a coach.

Joe Smith and Delonte alone was worth the entire group they traded away


A coach with balls who is respected knows when to criticize his players; Mike Brown allowed apathy to set in and refused to instill a playoff mentality when the time arrived. 

Smith and West purely from an ability stand point were worth the trade yes, but with so much money embedded in Wallace and Wally, it completely locked the Cavs into a core team that simply wasn't good enough. It was a BAD trade, there's no other way to swing it. 

Except for the fact that the trade actually gave the Cavs MORE flexability?

Which they used to get Mo Williams.

Larry Hughes was on the hook for 70 Million over 5 years.

Ben Wallace was on the team for 1.5 years.

Larry Hughes would STILL be on the team making something like 12 million.

1 year of Ben Wallace was worse then 5 of Larry Hughes?


So the Cavs gained flexibility to turn one awful SG into a mediocre one that LeBron managed to make what, a fourth choice all-star? I'm struggling to figure out where all this bullshit talk about those trades reaches the point where my original comment of 'The Cavs made awful trades' is shown to be false.

Anyway, tonights game proved yet again that the Heat need to make a trade, Anthony and Arroyo are simply not good enough to start. What is it about Miami by the way that makes the Celtics play like it's the NBA Finals?

Constantly upgrading the players around you and your financial status = Good trades.

It should be obvious.

The front office did great with what they had.


The only two things you can really fault them on trade wise is waiting a year to pull the Shaq deal and not trading Sczerbiak's expiring.

 

On actual Free Agent signings they flopped... however considering that nobody at the time even suggested that Hughes and Williams were going to be flops it's hard to fault them for it.



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Cirio on 11 November 2010

Well, all I can say is the Lakers will go for 3-peat and Kobe will match MJ with 6 championship rings. Then the West will be dominated by the Trailblazers and the THUNDER (wish they stayed in Seattle). As for the East, I can see the Heat getting better as the season goes on but all in all I think they're very overrated. I think the Celtics will be dominant there along with the Magic, but the Magic are young while the Celtics are (fairly) old as a team. I don't see the Celtics or the Lakers dominating in a couple of years. It's time for some new teams to take the ring!



Kasz216 on 11 November 2010
Cirio said:

Well, all I can say is the Lakers will go for 3-peat and Kobe will match MJ with 6 championship rings. Then the West will be dominated by the Trailblazers and the THUNDER (wish they stayed in Seattle). As for the East, I can see the Heat getting better as the season goes on but all in all I think they're very overrated. I think the Celtics will be dominant there along with the Magic, but the Magic are young while the Celtics are (fairly) old as a team. I don't see the Celtics or the Lakers dominating in a couple of years. It's time for some new teams to take the ring!


Lakers do seem primed for a pretty easy repeat this year... but it's still early.

I wouldn't say the Heat are overrated so much as.... unique.

They're trying to play normally when their style suggests they should be running SOMETHING diferently.

Running LeBron out of the point, having Wade guard PG defensivly.... or run some kind of zone.



outlawauron on 12 November 2010

Hornets, baby.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
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chris212223 on 12 November 2010
outlawauron said:

Hornets, baby.


this picture made me lol its like "superman this dwight! rawr!"



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Kasz216 on 12 November 2010
chris212223 said:
outlawauron said:

Hornets, baby.


this picture made me lol its like "superman this dwight! rawr!"

It's seems obvious that Dwight Howard only plays basketball because he's good at it.

He doesn't seem to have that killer instinct, love of competition and just in general love for basketball that other great players do.

Not that such a thing is bad really.

I mean, look at Michael Jordan... I hear when he'd play cards with his friends if he lost he'd force them to keep playing until he won.

Most atheletes are just wired like that, EVERYTHING is a competiton.   It's a testament to how gifted he is that he can be so good yet so.... "soft."



Cross-X on 12 November 2010

Yeah let's all stop the talk about LeBron and let's talk about this.

 

Yes the Celtics once again handed the Heats another loss. 2-0 already for Celtics this season against the Heats.

and

Fuck yes for the Nuggets winning over the Lakers!!!



outlawauron on 12 November 2010

And the Hornets remain the only unbeaten team in the NBA. Any predictions on when their first loss will come?



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

Bladeneo on 12 November 2010
Kasz216 said:


Upgrades? They certainly didn't play like upgrades, Szczerbiak certainly upgraded the Cavs wide open 3 point misses I guess. Smith was solid I agree, but nothing more than that. 

Although, to comment on your edit before, I wouldn't say Shannon Brown sucks - Phil Jackson certainly doesn't think so. there's more to a player than his statistics. 

You don't usually go around badmouthing players on your team as a coach.

Joe Smith and Delonte alone was worth the entire group they traded away


A coach with balls who is respected knows when to criticize his players; Mike Brown allowed apathy to set in and refused to instill a playoff mentality when the time arrived. 

Smith and West purely from an ability stand point were worth the trade yes, but with so much money embedded in Wallace and Wally, it completely locked the Cavs into a core team that simply wasn't good enough. It was a BAD trade, there's no other way to swing it. 

Except for the fact that the trade actually gave the Cavs MORE flexability?

Which they used to get Mo Williams.

Larry Hughes was on the hook for 70 Million over 5 years.

Ben Wallace was on the team for 1.5 years.

Larry Hughes would STILL be on the team making something like 12 million.

1 year of Ben Wallace was worse then 5 of Larry Hughes?


So the Cavs gained flexibility to turn one awful SG into a mediocre one that LeBron managed to make what, a fourth choice all-star? I'm struggling to figure out where all this bullshit talk about those trades reaches the point where my original comment of 'The Cavs made awful trades' is shown to be false.

Anyway, tonights game proved yet again that the Heat need to make a trade, Anthony and Arroyo are simply not good enough to start. What is it about Miami by the way that makes the Celtics play like it's the NBA Finals?

Constantly upgrading the players around you and your financial status = Good trades.

It should be obvious.

The front office did great with what they had.


The only two things you can really fault them on trade wise is waiting a year to pull the Shaq deal and not trading Sczerbiak's expiring.

 

On actual Free Agent signings they flopped... however considering that nobody at the time even suggested that Hughes and Williams were going to be flops it's hard to fault them for it.

Well we're just going to have to agree to disagree aren't we? I find it hard to believe that in the span of six years the best player the Cavs managing to acquire was either Mo Williams, a 34 year old Jamison and a 38 year old Shaq and this, to you, translates to constant upgrades and the front office doing a great job. Upgrading from a poor player to a slightly better, but still poor player, isn't a good trade, because you've still got awful players. 



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Siko1989 on 12 November 2010

Laker fan, always have been always will be. yeah i know we lost today, it happens . we will be in the NBA Finals next year anyway lol