Raze said: The series died for me with FF7. |
I think Badgenome was implying the same thing and I basically agree.
Raze said: The series died for me with FF7. |
I think Badgenome was implying the same thing and I basically agree.
A203D said:
Yeah well i think after seeing how deep rooted these problems are then we're all disappointed with the decisions that have been made, but tbh, i think Wada is right to put pressure on the team now. they've taken far too many liberties, making FF less like and RPG and infusing it with FPS elements, and all the resources and time they consumed to do that. i dont think that Wada wants a main FF installment every 2 years, i think he want a new game from that team every 2 years, whether its a spin off or whatever. either way i was hoping that FF15 would've been developed by the other production team, who've havent been heard from since FF12 was released. and i can see your point that these games will continue to get worst because i dont have faith in the FF13 team. |
That's the problem; with Wada's infatuation with the "west" he's gonna want less RPG elements in the games. You gotta realize making a world, npcs, and the like take a lot of time, more than most other genres of games, 2 years is not enough time to develop a proper RPG.
darkknightkryta said: That's the problem; with Wada's infatuation with the "west" he's gonna want less RPG elements in the games. You gotta realize making a world, npcs, and the like take a lot of time, more than most other genres of games, 2 years is not enough time to develop a proper RPG. |
It's relative. A developer can take a lot more than that, and others take a lot less.
If a company establishes a good framework, the development time could be reduced and most of the time will be spent on the game's content instead of the technical stuff and it could take less than two years.
If SE has a framework that needs to be reworked each time to meet the project's requirements, then it's a mess and takes a lot of time to develop, tweak and debug.
the_bloodwalker said:
If a company establishes a good framework, the development time could be reduced and most of the time will be spent on the game's content instead of the technical stuff and it could take less than two years. If SE has a framework that needs to be reworked each time to meet the project's requirements, then it's a mess and takes a lot of time to develop, tweak and debug. |
This is true, but typically RPGs from Japan have very different art styles for each town and people. It's hard to reuse things now adays. Like it was a lot easier back in the snes days and nes days but not now.
Stats87 said: FF changes from game to game anyway, which people respond to with either happiness or annoyance. FF13 isn't any different, it just took what they did in FF12 to another level. I'm sure if in 1999 the internet was as vast as it is now, we would have heard the same things after FF8 came out. |
I was on the internet back then....and by 1999, it was "pretty vast". No one talked crap about FF. That was a bonified AAA title and franchise. It was up there with the best of the best.
FFX-2 was the first nail in the coffin when it comes to fans of Square and the franchise. That game was a SERIOUS drop in quality.
darkknightkryta said: That's the problem; with Wada's infatuation with the "west" he's gonna want less RPG elements in the games. You gotta realize making a world, npcs, and the like take a lot of time, more than most other genres of games, 2 years is not enough time to develop a proper RPG. |
i dont think Wada can be held accountable tbh, hes a buisness man, i dont think he has anything to do with the way the games are made, he just runs the company. and i dont think its just Wada whos been infatuated with the west, because Toriyama has discussed how hes tried to make FF13 more like a FPS, and Kitase says that FF13 isnt designed to be an RPG.
and imo these problems with the development team seems to come from the top-down structure. as in 1 or 2 people calling the shots, and the problems that are occuring that the 300 members of staff were having were simply not addressed by this structure, because theres simply too many people to be managed in this way. but for these reasons i think its impossible to blame Wada alone...
Scoobes said: That's really bad (the link you posted). After playing and completing the game I thought it may have been a case of development hell as you could see a lot of art assets were made and time taken to create the world, yet it lacked so many features normally found in a full Final Fantasy or even an average JRPG. This just proves my thoughts were correct. As for Crystal tools I don't think they'll be using it again, at least not in its current form. Since the merger with Eidos they've shared a lot of the tech to create a new engine. It wasn't a bad engine per se but it wasn't particularly advanced either, especially at release. |
Yeah it does seem like it was a nightmare, and the key problem seems to be switching from the PS2 to the new HD engine on the PS3. i doubt they'll use CT engine in the same way again, i imagine they'll incorperate it in some way because there must be things that its good at that Luminous inst?? yeah well according to someone else on this thread it was designed to be for cutscenes. and imo if they indeed trash it, then at least 5 years have been wasted!!! and this is completely unacceptable!
either way imo it seems to be the problem is more deep rooted at the management level; because i doubt Sakaguchi has these problems at Mistwalker, and i doubt things would have gone so wrong if he was still at SE. i think people forget, that even though his creativity went into FF, he also managed the development teams very well, up until the 10 installment and his departure.
A203D said: Yeah it does seem like it was a nightmare, and the key problem seems to be switching from the PS2 to the new HD engine on the PS3. i doubt they'll use CT engine in the same way again, i imagine they'll incorperate it in some way because there must be things that its good at that Luminous inst?? yeah well according to someone else on this thread it was designed to be for cutscenes. and imo if they indeed trash it, then at least 5 years have been wasted!!! and this is completely unacceptable! either way imo it seems to be the problem is more deep rooted at the management level; because i doubt Sakaguchi has these problems at Mistwalker, and i doubt things would have gone so wrong if he was still at SE. i think people forget, that even though his creativity went into FF, he also managed the development teams very well, up until the 10 installment and his departure. |
Now I love sakaguchi, but, in this society, he did enough plenty to get canned. Do I think he deserved it? no, because he made Squaresofts most popular franchises. but that's capitalism.
Sakaguchi, did the FF movie which (I loved) and massively failed. and there's no way to pin this on anyone other than Sakaguchi, it was completely his project... worse financially than anything SE has done since... (Except maybe FFXIV but that remains to be seen, and I still doubt it). the FF movie was one of the worst flops in Movie History.
Also, keep in mind, that FFVII was originally an SNES project started in 1994, then it got moved as a N64 project, then it got moved to playstation. While this happened in the span of 3 years instead of 5. FF13 was not the first time this happened to a franchise.
Sakaguchi doesn't even have a full dev team at mistwalker, as Blue Dragon was co-developed with Artoon, and Lost Odyssey was developed with Feelplus.
Also Luminous is based off of the old Eidos Engines. So without exact facts. It's impossible to know what SE intends to do with it. They are different tools for the devs to use. So it's entirely possible that depending on the game, the devs... eidos, or Square-Enix, will use the engine that best fits the project.
For example, Bioware.
Mass Effect Uses the Unreal Engine. While Dragon Age Uses the Eclipse Engine which is based off of their old Aurora Engine.
ishiki said:
Now I love sakaguchi, but, in this society, he did enough plenty to get canned. Do I think he deserved it? no, because he made Squaresofts most popular franchises. but that's capitalism. |
These are fair points, but FF7 was a different scenario. they had to switch to PS1 because of disagreements with Nintendo about the lack of storage on the catridge. and it wasnt just Sqaure, Konami also developed MGS for the PS1 after having previously had the MGS series on Nintendo. the point is FF13 was already 1 year into production - was it really necessary to scrap most the work and begin again using a completely new engine, that no developer had any experience with.
they may use CT engine again, but imo using it for FF13 was a mistake! well either way i think that Sakaguchi's management skills are missed at SE and i think that the Last Story will show this. the Spirits Within was a diasaster yes, but thats for other creative factors, it dosent change that when he was directing TSW, Sqaure managed to produce FF8, 9 and 10 within that time, to much critical and commerical success.