But you are talking about control of the character, as the character's position defines the environment?  With move and SC, you can move around the table-tennis table depending on where you stand.  How does this differ, just that you're holding something?  And surely that's more immersive, as you're holding something in real life and on screen?  Other than moving slightly left and right and back a bit, you can't really control the environment that much anyway, so surely the sense of immersion is quite low?

i want to ask you a question, do you have a wii?

No, I'm not talking about control of the character, I'm talking about control of the camera in relation to your body position.

Watching this video: http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-sports-champions/17-3256/

Nothing he is doing with his body in any of the games is affecting the world at all, it's only the position of the wand that is having an effect.  In table tennis I can see the camera moving it's angle In relation to his arm/hand position only, not his legs or body position.  In the gladiator dual he's playing the entire thing with just arm movements, same with volleyball, it's just waggle.  In the Kinect volleyball if you want to spike it, you actually need to jump.

Did you watch the E3 Forza demo where he walked around the car?  That's what I'm talking about.  And no, controlling a camera while holding something in your hand is not immersive, having it respond to your natural body position is.  If you really need to you can hold anything you want in your hand.

Let me ask you a question, have you actually tried Kinect?

Yes, check my game library.

Even one second is a looooong time.  Do this, make a punch motion then count "one thousand".  The lag is nowhere near that.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-case-for-kinect-article?page=1

In that article the show the lag to be about 200ms.  By comparison they also showed in another article that Killzone 2 had a delay of 150ms from the time you pressed a button on the controller until the time you saw something happen on screen in response.  So they're close. There is a lot of other really interesting stuff in that article, like how your body itself is laggy, which is why people don't notice the lag much when playing but you can see it while watching someone play.

The reason Dance Central doesn't appear to have lag is because you're not animating your character with your body movements, you're following the routine and it's judging how well you did by scanning your body.  Only during the freestyle sections are you seeing what you're doing on screen and during that part they aren't tracking your skeleton and mapping it to a character, they're using the depth data directly.

For someone who wants to everyone to know they have their own opinion you seem to speak as everything you say is fact.

Am I wrong, what non-mini/dance game have we seen work with kinect, the hands on preview for children of eden said kinect didn't work right at all, and thats an on rails shooter

Thats an outright lie.  I read a a few previews and most said that although it there was lag still at this stage of development they prefered to play it with Kinect. 

IGN - "Play Child of Eden, and you'll realize the true potential of Kinect."

IGN - "That simplicity -- almost as if you're conducting the game as the designer, Tetsuya Mizuguchi is keen to point out -- allows you to connect to the game in ways you never really could before. It may sound cliche, but for a trippy game filled with wondrous sights and thumping music, that's priority number one."

IGN Video Preview - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgPxzqSA_l0

Kotaku - "There was noticeable lag while playing Child of Eden with Kinect....But playing the game with Kinect was my preferred method."

Gamespot - " Playing with Kinect adds a more immersive element that, while feeling a bit odd at first, is pretty cool."

They have also said they are still tightening the controls with Kinect and it's not out until at least next March so they have time.  I did find a couple of previewers who didn't like it with Kinect (Destructoid) but to say it doesn't work at all is just trolling.

So your saying a professional reviewer is risking is job to troll, right, it's not like it'd be the first time MS has paid off people, not to mention another person saying the noticeable lag and thats the only specific anyone says, in my experience if people don't give specifics they aren't being very honest and why did you list IGN 3 times? Also it could just be people memorized with tech that seems new and getting a buzz from that, either way the only thing in common is they all mention input lag, and who knows maybe the destructoid guys problem was he didn't have a perfectly clean floor 

Oh, so you were quoting someone when they said it didn't work right at all?  I thought you were paraphrasing.  Source?

I quoted IGN 3 times because it was 3 separate parts I wanted to highlight.  Did you even watch the video?  I doubt it because it wouldn't gel with your already established view of the game not working. 

I also love that fact that anyone who hates it is being honest and anyone who loved is being paid by MS.  Priceless.