you know. I liked the fact that console games couldn't be patched. In a way it meant that games were released more complete. I hate that the PC game market has been a "release first, complete later" system, and I really don't want to see the console market go down the same path.

Of course, if there wa a way to get patches onto consoles without developers taking advantage of it to release unfinished games then I would be all for it =)

NJ5 said: Girl Gamer Elite said: Recall > Patch. I know that sounds asinine, but with a Recall you're at least getting a complete game disc, not a patch which relies on an external source to provide you with it and is by its very nature supplemental to the game disc, not truly a part of it. While we all wish the Wii had more internal storage, this lack of storage prevents lazy developers from using quick fix patches which greatly impedes the quality of the end product no matter what your philosophy on the matter is. Downloadable Content is fine, Expansions are fine, Patches on the other hand are just lazy bandaid solutions to problems that should have never been. Exactly. The fact that Wii games can't be patched is great, because for once the philosophy of console gaming stays unchanged - games are supposed to work when they are released. Patching is completely stupid, because for one thing it assumes everyone has internet access and their consoles connected to the internet. Recalling the DVDs makes companies financially responsible for their mistakes, which is always a good thing.

I agree with both of you on this, but I don't think it's a valid supporting argument to hold back on storage capacity.  What I'd like to see in a next-generation console is plenty of storage, but no code patches.  Allow developers to have downloadable content, expansions, whatever, but no code patches -- it should be part of the license agreement for quality control.  If a company runs into a situation where they absolutely need a patch, they can do what Activision is doing and perform a recall.  Finish your games before you release them, and you won't have this problem.  Make developers show some responsibility.

Clarification: I don't think Nintendo decided to go with 256 MB of usable storage because of the above, I think that decision was based on cost and mechanical reliability (flash memory = no moving parts).

ameratsu said: omgwtfbbq said: ameratsu said: ok, my point has nothing to do with the topic at hand. however, i still do wonder why someone would buy a guitar hero (MUSIC centric afterall) game that does not support true surround sound. maybe those who bought guitar hero for wii can enlighten me.. same goes for people wanting rock band wii. people want a $179 music game to play it with stereo audio? maybe because they don't own an Xbox360 or PS3? Maybe because they want the Wii version because it's cheaper and it has some extra features? Or maybe they don't have a surround sound system or don't care about how the game sounds and just want to have fun? Maybe if you thought about it for a minute rather than just blatantly anti-wii trolled you would have come up with at least half ofthose reasons. ps2 also has a digital audio input.

ok, the PS2 has a digital audio input... But look at all the other reasons he gave you. I want Guitar Hero and i dont have surround sound... who cares! Its a game, its meant to be fun; im not gonna care if i hear the music behind me as well as in front. Some people do, and generally those people are concerned with HD graphics and making sure their tv is "True HD", but if you havent noticed already the Wii aint going for that type of gamer. Its cheap, easy to use, just for fun etc. People who generally care about surround sound im sure will generally pick an xbox 360 or PS3, because that would cater to their needs.

Also, about the Mono thing... I thought it only was a problem with some discs.. From what i heard most of the discs work as they were intended to with Stereo, and that it was only a problem a few people were having...

tk1989 said: Also, about the Mono thing... I thought it only was a problem with some discs.. From what i heard most of the discs work as they were intended to with Stereo, and that it was only a problem a few people were having...

I'm pretty sure all the discs are the same, otherwise why would the new ones only be available next year?  I think it's just that most people can't tell the difference, so they don't know that there is a problem.

The mono problem is on every single Wii version of GH3. By changing the Wii setting to stereo, all it does is send the same audio signal to both left and right channels, that's still mono. 

And to clear up some misconceptions, the Wii does output discrete surround sound by encoding sound into Pro Logic 2. A Pro Logic 2 compatible receiver can take the left and right audio signals that's been encoded and seperate out the surround information. It just isn't a digital solution like Dolby Digital.

Nor is it a discrete solution -- it's 5 channels of sound encoded into 2 channels of information. It's fairly good, but it's neither digital nor discrete.

meh, sorry about that, it just what i heard somewhere :P my mistake lol.

Entroper said: Nor is it a discrete solution -- it's 5 channels of sound encoded into 2 channels of information. It's fairly good, but it's neither digital nor discrete.

Yes, I think the term I should have used was 'full-range' channels to be technically correct.  The perception seems to be that the Wii doesn't output surround or that it's pseudo surround with the receiver upmixing a plain stereo signal.  From what I understand of Pro Logic 2, as long as the sound is encoded and decoded properly, all channels should come out fine and be pretty close in quality to something like Dolby Digital.