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Forums - Sales Discussion - Wii losing its thunder?

The Wii will be doomed when the next gen systems come out. I don't see why people would rather go pick up Kinect, when they already have a Wii. A motion sensing camera seems dumb to me and not all that practical in a party setting, which is where the Wii really strived. I actually expect more from move, mainly because it does a similar thing as the Wii. But i garuntee that neither Move, nor Kinect will move consoles to a large amount, mainly because most people will already have the Wii, and the people who care about the motion sensing aspect of a game, normally don't care if it's in HD. SO if hey already have a Wii, why go buy another system that does basically the same thing, but wait for more money than you spent on the Wii... that's just a bad idea. People who will buy kinect, are Xbox users who are trying to support the Xbox in all it's ways ((same thing for move and PS3 users)) But i believe that the Wii will once again claim holiday supremacy, mainly because it does what the other consoles do ((even though they are late to the party)) but it does it for less, and has more games that do it. ((it is motion controls)) Also it has a bunch of great games that are exclusive for the system already stacked up so it's not like you can get them on another system, so yeah. Wii trumps PS360 because its ahead of the game, and it has the library of Interactive games already up and proven to sell and be fun, also has exclusives that only come on it's system ((and not split with another system)) 



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Multiple people have said that it was combination of price drop and motion control exclusivity last year that propelled the Wii in the final 3 months of the year.  Not that the sole reason for the Wii success was price difference. 

Right now there is no sign that the Wii will all of a sudden start selling 220K per week like August 2009, or 160K per week like September 2009, or 370K per week like October 2009.  First title we are told will propel the Wii forward is Kirby (when was the last time Kirby sold well by the way) and it comes out mid October.



Its libraries that sell systems not a single game.

With exclusives like Kirby, Donkey Kong Country, Goldeneye, Metroid Other M, Epic Mickey, The Last Story etc. The Wii has a big Line-Up for the rest of this year. On top of that some multi-games and niche exclusive games like Black Ops, Conduit 2, Lost in Shadow, Trackmania, HAWX 2, Ghost Recon Rail Shooter, Earth Seeker, Sims 3, Driver, Need for Speed, a new Raving Rabbids game etc. etc.

In my opinion the Wii has by far the best Line-Up of all three consoles so far this year and it seems it will hold this position for the rest of the year.



So z101 when do you believe the Wii will start catching up to its performance last year?  When does it start making up ground?

This year August 150K per week. Last year 220K per week.

Last year September 160k per week.

Last year October 370k per week.



Its libraries that sell systems not a single game.

Rpruett said:
jarrod said:
Rpruett said:
jarrod said:
Rpruett said:

.  What makes a Wii more appealing than a full-fledged motion control line-up of Kinect or Move?  

The same thing that made Wii a success in the first place: Nintendo games.

Wii Party alone will probably outsell all the (unbundled) Move and Kinect launch games combined.


I don't believe for one second that Nintendo games were the sole or even primary reason for Nintendo being in a success in the first place this generation.  I believe Motion controls and price take the top two spots. 

The Nintendo games just were after thoughts or benefits after the fact.  I say this because,  I have had a blast playing Nintendo games on every Nintendo console (Dating back to NES/SNES/N64/GameCube)  good games from Nintendo has been a constant not a variable.    Motion controls and price (relative to the competition) is a variable however. 

Software integration is key, and has been the real secret for Nintendo's success this gen.  Wii Sports sold people on the Wii, not the reverse.  Same thing on DS with Brain-Age and Nintendogs.  If the Wii released as is, without any Nintendo titles, it would've bombed harder than Gamecube... motion controls alone wouldn't sell it, it needed the right games for consumers to take notice.

Also, the quality of Nintendo's games (or at least EAD's games) has been very much in flux, with an appreciable drop during GC's formative years, which in retrospect was blamed on a shift in internal development philosophy (shorter cycles, more frequent releases) which was later reverted.  N64 was still rather successful all things considered (ie: most expensive games, barren 3rd party support, huge holes in library), pretty much on the back on Nintendo games alone.  Post-SNES, Nintendo's been the driving force on all their platforms almost single handedly.

If price were the driving factor, or even a chief driving factor, GameCube would've been dominant upfront last gen.  It had an even greater price advantage over the competition ($100 at lowest barrier to entry) than Wii did ($50 for the same standard).

While software is ALWAYS an important factor to selling a system, you are mistaken if you believe that the inclusion of Wii Sports sold the Wii to people.  People would have gladly bought Wii Sports as a standalone game had Nintendo made it as such.    Nintendo had a lot different reception to the Wii than they did Gamecube (From the beginning).  Wii was going to be more successful just by premise than the Gamecube.

I agree that Nintendo games have been the driving force on all of their consoles (I won't speak about handhelds as I don't have a specific interest in them) for a good while now.  Atleast for me,  I can say that Nintendo games are the sole piece of software I am looking to purchase on a Nintendo console.

 

 

As for the Gamecube being dominant last gen because of price?   It's a totally different story.  And I think you're missing the point if you don't understand what I am saying. 

 

The Wii when it released this generation came with a small game/controller and hit the market at $250.

The Xbox 360 when it released this generation came with a controller and hit the market at $400. (I'm not counting the core because even for that system to become viable you needed an expensive after market HDD).

The PS3 when it released this generation came with a controller and hit the market at $600.

 

$150 price difference over the 360 and $350 price difference over the PS3.  A total price difference over competition of $500 dollars!!  It's astounding when you see that price difference.   

 

You can't even begin to compare it to the previous generation. Price wasn't NEARLY the factor.  First and foremost the world economy as a whole was healthier but even moreso all the pricing was practically identical last generation or atleast reasonably close.

PS2 initially marketed at $300 (Released Fall 2000) / Xbox initially marketed at $300 (Released Fall 2001) / Gamecube marketed at $200 (Released Fall 2001).   A total price difference over competition (A year later nonetheless of a paltry $100 dollars combined). 

It's not even close.  Gamecube was marginally ahead in price compared to how ridiculously ahead in price the Nintendo Wii was.  The funniest thing about this generation is that it was ENTIRELY sold on price IMHO.  Looking back at it, I don't even know why people thought this would be a competition in terms of sales.  The pricing of these high end consoles was just too high from the very beginning. 

The genius to bundling Wii Sports was that it was the platform's proof of concept.  I agree it was a game that tens of millions would have bought anyway, but it's a game that really sold the hardware to casuals and non-gamers, through word of mouth and first hand experience chiefly rather than how the industry usually works.  Making sure that it came with every Wii, that it was always there to "hook" someone trying the platform for the first time, was one of smartest decisions Nintendo's made this generation... honestly, I'd say you're very much undervaluing the game's impact.  Price, by comparison, was a total non-issue.

And I don't think you can discount the $299 Core 360 out of hand, when it was basically the same setup as what PS2 offered for $299 five years previously (barebones console, wired controller, need to buy a HDD or memory card), nor the $499 PS3 (missing only WiFi and some HDD GBs). Price was never a selling point for Wii considering it routinely went for over MSRP 2nd hand for it's first couple years, and indeed the $249 launch price was deemed overpriced by most within the industry when it was first announced.  If you think pricepoints are the real driving factor behind Wii's overwhelming success and social phenomena, then I'd say you haven't really been paying attention this generation... there's a reason Nintendo's only needed to give Wii one actual price drop in four years...



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thx1139 said:

So z101 when do you believe the Wii will start catching up to its performance last year?  When does it start making up ground?

This year August 150K per week. Last year 220K per week.

Last year September 160k per week.

Last year October 370k per week.

I think this is a bit of a silly argument. it does not matter whether it sells more than it did last year. What matter is that it will sell a shit load. If it sells 3.9mil (not saying it will by the way) this year instead of the 4 mil it sold last Christmas do you really think Nintendo will start worrying about declining sales? hell even if it sold 3 million i dont think thats bad. I mean its in its 4th year and its still doing really well. Its no good comparing it to the 360 which just had a new mode released. What exactly are you arguing here? Its very obvious the reason the Wii is not firing up the charts (like it has done it whole life by the way!!) is because consumers have not really been given a reason to by one. Which all Boils down to...... GAMES!!!



Nintendo & Sony Supporter

Currently own- DS, PSP, PS2, Wii, Xbox 360, PS3 DreamCast.

Man i have too many consoles..... 

Quotes to live by!

"Life is either a daring adventure or nothing"- Helen Keller

"i am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is another step forward"-Thomas Edison

"Man is not the creature of circumstancesCircumstances are the creatures of men"


jarrod said:
Rpruett said:
jarrod said:
Rpruett said:
jarrod said:
Rpruett said:

.  What makes a Wii more appealing than a full-fledged motion control line-up of Kinect or Move?  

The same thing that made Wii a success in the first place: Nintendo games.

Wii Party alone will probably outsell all the (unbundled) Move and Kinect launch games combined.


I don't believe for one second that Nintendo games were the sole or even primary reason for Nintendo being in a success in the first place this generation.  I believe Motion controls and price take the top two spots. 

The Nintendo games just were after thoughts or benefits after the fact.  I say this because,  I have had a blast playing Nintendo games on every Nintendo console (Dating back to NES/SNES/N64/GameCube)  good games from Nintendo has been a constant not a variable.    Motion controls and price (relative to the competition) is a variable however. 

Software integration is key, and has been the real secret for Nintendo's success this gen.  Wii Sports sold people on the Wii, not the reverse.  Same thing on DS with Brain-Age and Nintendogs.  If the Wii released as is, without any Nintendo titles, it would've bombed harder than Gamecube... motion controls alone wouldn't sell it, it needed the right games for consumers to take notice.

Also, the quality of Nintendo's games (or at least EAD's games) has been very much in flux, with an appreciable drop during GC's formative years, which in retrospect was blamed on a shift in internal development philosophy (shorter cycles, more frequent releases) which was later reverted.  N64 was still rather successful all things considered (ie: most expensive games, barren 3rd party support, huge holes in library), pretty much on the back on Nintendo games alone.  Post-SNES, Nintendo's been the driving force on all their platforms almost single handedly.

If price were the driving factor, or even a chief driving factor, GameCube would've been dominant upfront last gen.  It had an even greater price advantage over the competition ($100 at lowest barrier to entry) than Wii did ($50 for the same standard).

While software is ALWAYS an important factor to selling a system, you are mistaken if you believe that the inclusion of Wii Sports sold the Wii to people.  People would have gladly bought Wii Sports as a standalone game had Nintendo made it as such.    Nintendo had a lot different reception to the Wii than they did Gamecube (From the beginning).  Wii was going to be more successful just by premise than the Gamecube.

I agree that Nintendo games have been the driving force on all of their consoles (I won't speak about handhelds as I don't have a specific interest in them) for a good while now.  Atleast for me,  I can say that Nintendo games are the sole piece of software I am looking to purchase on a Nintendo console.

 

 

As for the Gamecube being dominant last gen because of price?   It's a totally different story.  And I think you're missing the point if you don't understand what I am saying. 

 

The Wii when it released this generation came with a small game/controller and hit the market at $250.

The Xbox 360 when it released this generation came with a controller and hit the market at $400. (I'm not counting the core because even for that system to become viable you needed an expensive after market HDD).

The PS3 when it released this generation came with a controller and hit the market at $600.

 

$150 price difference over the 360 and $350 price difference over the PS3.  A total price difference over competition of $500 dollars!!  It's astounding when you see that price difference.   

 

You can't even begin to compare it to the previous generation. Price wasn't NEARLY the factor.  First and foremost the world economy as a whole was healthier but even moreso all the pricing was practically identical last generation or atleast reasonably close.

PS2 initially marketed at $300 (Released Fall 2000) / Xbox initially marketed at $300 (Released Fall 2001) / Gamecube marketed at $200 (Released Fall 2001).   A total price difference over competition (A year later nonetheless of a paltry $100 dollars combined). 

It's not even close.  Gamecube was marginally ahead in price compared to how ridiculously ahead in price the Nintendo Wii was.  The funniest thing about this generation is that it was ENTIRELY sold on price IMHO.  Looking back at it, I don't even know why people thought this would be a competition in terms of sales.  The pricing of these high end consoles was just too high from the very beginning. 

Price was never a selling point for Wii considering it routinely went for over MSRP 2nd hand for it's first couple years, and indeed the $249 launch price was deemed overpriced by most within the industry when it was first announced.  

If you think pricepoints are the real driving factor behind Wii's overwhelming success and social phenomena, then I'd say you haven't really been paying attention this generation... there's a reason Nintendo's only needed to give Wii one actual price drop in four years...

Who cares about most within the industry?  The public perception is literally 'all' that matters.  The $250 dollar price point was significantly cheaper than either of the other two companies alternatives and consumers looking for a 'new' console surely got their new console.

You're right there is a reason Nintendo only needed to give the Wii one actual price drop in four years.....It's taken the Over-priced HD consoles that many years to reach a comparable price to the original $250 dollar Wii.  Hell the PS3,  STILL has not reached the Wii's original price point.     



We'll see Wii sell quite well from October-December, as its holiday lineup comes into play, it'll probably sell less overall than last year, but it'll probably still rack in around 18-20 Million for the year when all is said and done



Rpruett said:

I've never laid price as the ENTIRE factor for success or failure.  You've just mis-read, mis-understood, built a strawman, etc onto what you think I believe.

I stated that I believe (price/motion controls) were the top two reasons for the Wii's success this generation.   And when you look at the standard full-fledged models from each company upon release.  ($600 PS3/$400 360/$250 Wii)  it becomes very easy to see why people flocked to the Wii.   It becomes even more easy to see when you look at all of the previous generation winners and their console's entry point price.  Go ahead,  I want you to list them for me. 

It wasn't a strawman attack given that it was you that stated, "...it was ENTIRELY sold on price IMHO."  This statement suggests price and price alone the attributing factor for the console's success.  At least in your final paragraph you begin to assist the price factor with the motion control factor.  But again that's still missing the final key piece.  Software.  Wii ground fame on the triunvirate of price, input method and software.  To disregard any as an equal factor is naive. 

 

But you asked for hardware winners and their entry price point.  I'll give you that.  As well as the price points of those consoles that did not win their generation.

3rd generation:
Winner: NES ($199.99)
Others: Sega Master System ($199.99), Atari 7800 ($139.99)

4th generation:
Winner: SNES ($199.99)
Others: Sega Genesis ($189.99), TurboGrafx-16 (249.99), Neo Geo ($399.99)

5th generation:
Winner: Playstation ($299.99)
Others: N64 ($249.99), Sega Saturn ($399.99), Aari Jaguar ($249.99), 3DO ($699.99)

6th generation:
Winner: PS2 ($299.99)
Others: GC ($199.99), Xbox ($299.99), Dreamcast ($199.99)

As you can see, not one time in the modern era of video games has the cheapest home console won their generation. 



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Viper1 said:
Rpruett said:

I've never laid price as the ENTIRE factor for success or failure.  You've just mis-read, mis-understood, built a strawman, etc onto what you think I believe.

I stated that I believe (price/motion controls) were the top two reasons for the Wii's success this generation.   And when you look at the standard full-fledged models from each company upon release.  ($600 PS3/$400 360/$250 Wii)  it becomes very easy to see why people flocked to the Wii.   It becomes even more easy to see when you look at all of the previous generation winners and their console's entry point price.  Go ahead,  I want you to list them for me. 

It wasn't a strawman attack given that it was you that stated, "...it was ENTIRELY sold on price IMHO."  This statement suggests price and price alone the attributing factor for the console's success.  At least in your final paragraph you begin to assist the price factor with the motion control factor.  But again that's still missing the final key piece.  Software.  Wii ground fame on the triunvirate of price, input method and software.  To disregard any as an equal factor is naive. 

 

But you asked for hardware winners and their entry price point.  I'll give you that.  As well as the price points of those consoles that did not win their generation.

3rd generation:
Winner: NES ($199.99)
Others: Sega Master System ($199.99), Atari 7800 ($139.99)

4th generation:
Winner: SNES ($199.99)
Others: Sega Genesis ($189.99), TurboGrafx-16 (249.99), Neo Geo ($399.99)

5th generation:
Winner: Playstation ($299.99)
Others: N64 ($249.99), Sega Saturn ($399.99), Aari Jaguar ($249.99), 3DO ($699.99)

6th generation:
Winner: PS2 ($299.99)
Others: GC ($199.99), Xbox ($299.99), Dreamcast ($199.99)

As you can see, not one time in the modern era of video games has the cheapest home console won their generation. 


Again though,  not once has a generation winner been priced over $300 (Something to take note of).  It's a sweet spot price point that looking back,  I am shocked MS / Sony believed they could force onto the consumer (Sony pricing themselves $300 above that, Microsoft $100). 

Let's pretend for a minute that the price roles were reversed and the Wii was released at $600 (With it's same software) and the PS3 were released at $250 (With it's same software).  Do you believe the Wii would have won?  Again, if this is a battle of 'Software'  no price would be too small for these 'killer' apps. 

Many would not have jumped into bed with the Wii (Even if they enjoyed the software because the price point is very restrictive).  The sales would have been horrendous.  Even far worse than the PS3's initial sales. 

Fun/Quality software is very much a case of accessibility as much as anything else.  This is why after a few years a generation is generally established because by the mid point,  once more people have exposure to the leading console they inevitably associate that fun with the console they are most likely to be playing (The leading console) and don't associate as much fun with the console they are most likely not playing. 

I would argue that the early software on the Wii (Namely Wii Sports) was popular in large part because it was accessible for everyone at the $250 price point (Moms,Dads, Kids, Teenagers, Grandparents, College Kids, etc). Which is especially why Software is not an equal to Price point in this case.  Which furthers the rationale why no generation winning console in recent history has crossed that $300 barrier yet.  By being priced above $300 you are effectively out of prime casual selling range.

Where as equally quality launch games on the PS3 (Warhawk / Resistance) were shoved aside because they weren't accessible to the general consumer.  Sure you might know one friend with a PS3 but even still you can't afford  $650(A PS3, and a copy of Warhawk) to play with them.