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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Can the Playstation Eye already do what Xbox Kinect?

Mr Puggsly said:
rakugakist said:


I'm sure it'll sell more than the 32X.  I used the 32X as an example because because I think most people who buy it won't end up using it.  And controlling speed based on how far apart your hands are is completely ridiculous and stupid.  But you're right, it's my opinion, and that doesn't stand for much.  After all, I'm no Michael Pachter.  I just don't see this thing having long term success.

Well the 32X had a lot of problems. I mean it was really expensive, it didn't change the Genesis experience much, carts were still limited to 4MB, and even if you wanted to use it there were few games to choose from.

The Sega CD would be a much better example. I mean people actually bought that, the software was very different than what the Genesis offered, and it was released while the Genesis was relevant.

You know the 32X was actually released in Japan after the Sega Saturn? 32X hit America with the Saturn just a few months away. The 32X was a joke, comparing the Kinect to it makes me think you are making a comparison you know nothing about.

If it makes you feel better I didn't think the Wii would be a long term success. Especially given the software. Boy was I wrong.

Don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about.  The ONLY reason I made the comparison was because people who bought the 32X didn't end up using it.  I had a 32X, I was really into Sega back in the day.  I also had a Sega CD, but I played the hell out of it.  I was not comparing the 32X with Kinect by means of any other basis other than that I think people who buy Kinect will not end up using it all that much.

I was just in Gamestop, and I was browsing 360 titles and a bunch of people were also browsing 360 titles.  One of the guys asked his friend, "What's Kinect?"  The friend replied, "It's like Wii, only better."  Another guy stepped in and asked, "You want to get to get one?"  The reply was, "No, I've played Wii, it sucks."  Then the guy who originally asked about Kinect was like, "How can it be like Wii, it doesn't even have a controller."

My point is that we are of differing opinions.  I don't think 360's core audience cares about Kinect, except for 360 fanboys who live and die by Microsoft.  I don't think the casual audience is going to care that much about Kinect because they can buy the Wii for cheaper, and the Wii has incredible success, pop culture phenom, and Mario.

So it is my opinion that it will sell well initially because of hype, then sit on people's shelves unused, and then not continue to sell well.  I could be wrong, who knows.



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Its not a matter of can or can't. 

Execution is important and whether we see the results of that execution, with PS EYE SONY's aim is different from NATAL's.



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

dude he has it right there in black and white. the specs don't lie. the burdon of proof is with MS



rakugakist said:

Don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about.  The ONLY reason I made the comparison was because people who bought the 32X didn't end up using it.  I had a 32X, I was really into Sega back in the day.  I also had a Sega CD, but I played the hell out of it.  I was not comparing the 32X with Kinect by means of any other basis other than that I think people who buy Kinect will not end up using it all that much.

But you really don't know how much people are gonna use it. Its not like the 32X had many games worth playing and I say that as a Sega fan. We also know the Kinect will have much more support than the 32X. It was just a bad comparison. Lets move on.

I was just in Gamestop, and I was browsing 360 titles and a bunch of people were also browsing 360 titles.  One of the guys asked his friend, "What's Kinect?"  The friend replied, "It's like Wii, only better."  Another guy stepped in and asked, "You want to get to get one?"  The reply was, "No, I've played Wii, it sucks."  Then the guy who originally asked about Kinect was like, "How can it be like Wii, it doesn't even have a controller."

I'm not sure what that story has to do with anything. I can also assume that wasn't the Kinect's intended demographic.

My point is that we are of differing opinions.  I don't think 360's core audience cares about Kinect, except for 360 fanboys who live and die by Microsoft.  I don't think the casual audience is going to care that much about Kinect because they can buy the Wii for cheaper, and the Wii has incredible success, pop culture phenom, and Mario.

First of all, nobody is under the illusion it'll become a mega success like Wii hardware and software. Nobody is expecting every 360 to buy it either. But it'll definitely bring some new people to the 360, some current 360 owners will buy it, and it'll very likely be a success. Rest assured nobody is expecting Kinect to take over the world.

So it is my opinion that it will sell well initially because of hype, then sit on people's shelves unused, and then not continue to sell well.  I could be wrong, who knows.

You could be wrong... you could be right... but nobody is really expecting mega sales. Perhaps you've set expectations higher than most.





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Mr Puggsly said:
rakugakist said:

Don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about.  The ONLY reason I made the comparison was because people who bought the 32X didn't end up using it.  I had a 32X, I was really into Sega back in the day.  I also had a Sega CD, but I played the hell out of it.  I was not comparing the 32X with Kinect by means of any other basis other than that I think people who buy Kinect will not end up using it all that much.

But you really don't know how much people are gonna use it. Its not like the 32X had many games worth playing and I say that as a Sega fan. We also know the Kinect will have much more support than the 32X. It was just a bad comparison. Lets move on.

I was just in Gamestop, and I was browsing 360 titles and a bunch of people were also browsing 360 titles.  One of the guys asked his friend, "What's Kinect?"  The friend replied, "It's like Wii, only better."  Another guy stepped in and asked, "You want to get to get one?"  The reply was, "No, I've played Wii, it sucks."  Then the guy who originally asked about Kinect was like, "How can it be like Wii, it doesn't even have a controller."

I'm not sure what that story has to do with anything. I can also assume that wasn't the Kinect's intended demographic.

My point is that we are of differing opinions.  I don't think 360's core audience cares about Kinect, except for 360 fanboys who live and die by Microsoft.  I don't think the casual audience is going to care that much about Kinect because they can buy the Wii for cheaper, and the Wii has incredible success, pop culture phenom, and Mario.

First of all, nobody is under the illusion it'll become a mega success like Wii hardware and software. Nobody is expecting every 360 to buy it either. But it'll definitely bring some new people to the 360, some current 360 owners will buy it, and it'll very likely be a success. Rest assured nobody is expecting Kinect to take over the world.

So it is my opinion that it will sell well initially because of hype, then sit on people's shelves unused, and then not continue to sell well.  I could be wrong, who knows.

You could be wrong... you could be right... but nobody is really expecting mega sales. Perhaps you've set expectations higher than most.




Let's just agree to disagree.  I agree with you that people will buy it, and that includes new users and current users alike.  Especially if it's hyped as great new technology or whatever.  But I don't think it's going to last. And I don't think it's going to become the success Microsoft is hoping for.  There, are we done now?



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TWRoO said:

Pretty obviously not... otherwise there would be no need for silly glowing balls.

I'm certainly no supporter of Kinect either (in fact i'm a supporter of neither, though believe the Move looks to be a more versatile option if it can be used as a pointer (properly, not like the sixaxis "can" be used as a pointer))

That's the major difference in the nutshell. PsEye tracks normal light while Kinect uses IR light. A known size  lighted ball makes tracking more reliable when using normal light. 



I can't believe how ignorant most people here are about Kinect! The first poster is only comparing the video and audio specs, they're completely ignoring the most important part of Kinect which is the 3D infra-red sensor used for motion tracking in a 3D space. Infra-red beams are transmitted to make a 3D space (about 10ft I think) and can detect and create a basic 3D shape of your body (and anything else for that matter) then the Kinect combined with the proprietary software tracks your body and creates a basic 3D skeleton to make the full 3D body tracking more accurate. You see this best demonstrated in the Ricochet game (although I think you can only move from side to side and not back and forth, however your arms/hands/legs/feet/head are still being tracked in 3D so that the velocity of your hits/kicks/headers affect the balls rather than the game just detecting hits on a 2D plane) and Ubisoft's Your Shape. It's probably demonstrated in at least some of the sports games too.

Now I totally agree that Microsoft haven't exactly demonstrated its full potential very well so far but then again it's a lot more complicated to create games for than the Wii or the Eye Toy. (Or the Move which is basically just a Wiimote & Eye Toy.) But if you actually read some more proper information about Kinect then maybe you can imagine what sort of games can be created that can only be properly done with Kinect. I'll give you one example, now you can think of the infra-red sensor creating a "suit" on you, what could that suit be? How about the IRON MAN SUIT?! So now imagine an Iron Man game where for example you could jump to start flying then move your body and arms around to control the flying. You could shoot using hand movements and when you're on the ground you could put your palm out just like Iron Man and shoot out of it. Control on the ground is easy you just imagine there's a big analogue stick under you and move your feet in the direction you want to go. (As in just take 1 step forward to keep moving forward then step back to the middle when you want to stop.) That's just one example, there's so much more that could be done but I'm keeping my ideas to myself right now! By the way, according to Microsoft you can also use the joypad in conjunction with Kinect so companies can make games that use buttons too.

Watch this video to see more of how Kinect works, there are lots of clips with monitors showing what Kinect's sensors "see", they are at 0:45, 1:08, 1:19, 2:05 and 2:23, and if you pause the video at 1:23 you'll see the skeleton system where each "bone" is essentially a buttonless Wiimote so you're looking at the equivalent of 20 Wiimotes per player being tracked at once in a 3D space:

And read this blog: http://procrastineering.blogspot.com/2009/06/project-natal.html



rakugakist said:
Mr Puggsly said:
rakugakist said:

Don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about.  The ONLY reason I made the comparison was because people who bought the 32X didn't end up using it.  I had a 32X, I was really into Sega back in the day.  I also had a Sega CD, but I played the hell out of it.  I was not comparing the 32X with Kinect by means of any other basis other than that I think people who buy Kinect will not end up using it all that much.

But you really don't know how much people are gonna use it. Its not like the 32X had many games worth playing and I say that as a Sega fan. We also know the Kinect will have much more support than the 32X. It was just a bad comparison. Lets move on.

I was just in Gamestop, and I was browsing 360 titles and a bunch of people were also browsing 360 titles.  One of the guys asked his friend, "What's Kinect?"  The friend replied, "It's like Wii, only better."  Another guy stepped in and asked, "You want to get to get one?"  The reply was, "No, I've played Wii, it sucks."  Then the guy who originally asked about Kinect was like, "How can it be like Wii, it doesn't even have a controller."

I'm not sure what that story has to do with anything. I can also assume that wasn't the Kinect's intended demographic.

My point is that we are of differing opinions.  I don't think 360's core audience cares about Kinect, except for 360 fanboys who live and die by Microsoft.  I don't think the casual audience is going to care that much about Kinect because they can buy the Wii for cheaper, and the Wii has incredible success, pop culture phenom, and Mario.

First of all, nobody is under the illusion it'll become a mega success like Wii hardware and software. Nobody is expecting every 360 to buy it either. But it'll definitely bring some new people to the 360, some current 360 owners will buy it, and it'll very likely be a success. Rest assured nobody is expecting Kinect to take over the world.

So it is my opinion that it will sell well initially because of hype, then sit on people's shelves unused, and then not continue to sell well.  I could be wrong, who knows.

You could be wrong... you could be right... but nobody is really expecting mega sales. Perhaps you've set expectations higher than most.




Let's just agree to disagree.  I agree with you that people will buy it, and that includes new users and current users alike.  Especially if it's hyped as great new technology or whatever.  But I don't think it's going to last. And I don't think it's going to become the success Microsoft is hoping for.  There, are we done now?

Well who would've guess putting the 360 in a shiny new box would have such an impact? You never know whats gonna appeal to consumers. And we don't really know how many Kinect units MS is expecting to sell. I just have a feeling it'll be a success. We can end on that.



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Mr Puggsly said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Clearly this is an article written by a moron and posted by a PS3 fan.

I've asked Sony fans to give proof the PS Eye has the same capabilities as the Kinect but they never respond. I wonder why?


gametrailers.com has a comparison video, but they are the same and nothings different. speaking of PS3 fans not proving theres no difference. no 360 fan has proven there is.

i had a thread that asked this same question, and as a observer only just as i am now not trying or willing to debate! i've seen no difference.

Once again since you can't seem to get it through your head. I just want to see PS Eye games doing exactly what Kinect games are doing.

Hence, controlling a 3D model with your body, playing a driving game with just your hands, or even using your hand similar as a mouse cursor to guide through menus. It seems the only excuse Sony fans have is, "well you don't know it can't do it."

I don't understand why you think the PSEye can't use your motions to control a 3-D model.  The EyeToy for PS2 already did it with Anti-Grav and Knights.  Why wouldn't the PSEye, a more sophisticated version of the EyeToy, be able to do it?  There's already a tech demo for the Eye/Move that tracks a persons movement to control a 3-D robot model.  The Move is used for the arm tracking, but the head and body are tracked, as well.  And watching the vid of Sega's Knights for Eyetoy shows a way similar to what could be used for steering a car in a racing game.  And is the menu navigation really that much more advanced than what was done on the EyeToy games?  I haven't really seen any videos that show it be so.

Here's a vid that pretty much sums it up.  You can ignore the "noob" song/part at the end.  I don't support that.

Download:
FLVMP43GP

 

Remember, most of this is done with the power of the PS2, with a camera much simpler then today's PSEye.  Just think what's capable with the PS3 plus PSEye.  Now, does it suck that it took the success of the Wii for Sony to actually put more support behind the device?  Sure.  But it is what it is.  And in the upcoming months, we are going to see what the PSEye is actually capable of.



thismeintiel said:
Mr Puggsly said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Clearly this is an article written by a moron and posted by a PS3 fan.

I've asked Sony fans to give proof the PS Eye has the same capabilities as the Kinect but they never respond. I wonder why?


gametrailers.com has a comparison video, but they are the same and nothings different. speaking of PS3 fans not proving theres no difference. no 360 fan has proven there is.

i had a thread that asked this same question, and as a observer only just as i am now not trying or willing to debate! i've seen no difference.

Once again since you can't seem to get it through your head. I just want to see PS Eye games doing exactly what Kinect games are doing.

Hence, controlling a 3D model with your body, playing a driving game with just your hands, or even using your hand similar as a mouse cursor to guide through menus. It seems the only excuse Sony fans have is, "well you don't know it can't do it."

I don't understand why you think the PSEye can't use your motions to control a 3-D model.  The EyeToy for PS2 already did it with Anti-Grav and Knights.  Why wouldn't the PSEye, a more sophisticated version of the EyeToy, be able to do it?  There's already a tech demo for the Eye/Move that tracks a persons movement to control a 3-D robot model.  The Move is used for the arm tracking, but the head and body are tracked, as well.  And watching the vid of Sega's Knights for Eyetoy shows a way similar to what could be used for steering a car in a racing game.  And is the menu navigation really that much more advanced than what was done on the EyeToy games?  I haven't really seen any videos that show it be so.

Here's a vid that pretty much sums it up.  You can ignore the "noob" song/part at the end.  I don't support that.

Remember, most of this is done with the power of the PS2, with a camera much simpler then today's PSEye.  Does it suck that it took the success of the Wii for Sony to actually put more support behind the device?  Sure.  But it is what it is.  And in the upcoming months, we are going to see what the PSEye is actually capable of.


It's not about moving a 3D model, a d-pad can do that, it's about moving a 3D model via tracking body movements in full 3D space not 2D space or loosely 3D space with limited depth. Just watch the video in my previous post if you don't understand it.