The great sales divide!

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staticneuron said:
shams said:
Hey Kwaad, Sorry - but I don't agree at all. Several reasons why: i) Does the Wii have a simpler, or more complex input system? The answer, is that it varies based on the game. Is bowling on the Wii simpler or more complex? Does this make the game "simpler" or "deeper"? Apart from the control system, there is *no* difference in Wii games and PS3/360 games (or other Sony games). If a complex PS2 game (GTA?) is ported to the Wii - does this automatically dumb it down? ii) The Wii appeals to a wider target audience than the 360 or PS3. No question about that. If you go with the assumption that games like "Wii Sports" are "simpler/dumber", then it follows that only people that play this sort of game - and there will be a % of them - also only play simpler games. BUT - this only applies to a PERCENTAGE of Wii users - not all of them. I'll be rather insulted if you try argue that this applies to myself (or most of the other "hardcore" Wii users on this site). iii) In MY opinion, most of Sony's games are DUMBER/SIMPLER than Nintendo titles. They might use less buttons or be simpler to play - but in terms of depth or actual complexity, they are more complex. I'll use Motorstorm vrs ExciteTruck as my example. Those who have properly played both titles will understand exactly what I mean (the stars complexity/tricks on the track vrs 'driving' in Motorstorm). In fact most of Sony's "big" titles (GT, Rachet & Clank, Everybodys Golf) are all "simple" titles to play.

wel.... wait....did you just imply that Gran Turismo is a simple game to play?


LMAO... kiddy fans have no clue about racing sims.

hey shams... whats more bumber/simpler then Mario ?

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Kwaad, your complete lack of any design creativity regarding the Wii controller is astonishing. (I'm very relieved you're not a developer) As well as your pathetic attempt to classify what type of gamer the Wii attracts. Alas, you cannot help it due to the horse blinders & bit Sony has placed within your mouth. Yes, Little Big Planet looked extremely complex, I doubt the PS3 hardcore can grasp this one. The developer alone determines how complex/simplistic a game is. Try to grasp this, a simplistic control scheme can change & streamline an initially difficult & complex set-up into one that is much more intuitive & easily understood. Nintendo's mantra has always been simplicity of design, as this helps them to appeal to & attract the widest audience available. The Wii is simply this philosophy crystallized. Simplicity does not however equate to simplistic software. Try FE:GoD, you will be humbled.

"The things we touch have no permanence."

kwaad: how did the discussion went from "sales" to "controls"? sigh.

the Wii is an epidemic.

I see the root of this problem quite clearly.

 I'm not going to name names, but there are some posters here who are elitists, basically saying "PS3's games are more complex and are for a more sophistated, smarter audience. Whereas Wii's games are simpler and therefore are for a dumber, kiddie audience."

 Obviously, this slights Nintendo supporters, as they take this personally, since they are perceiving that the PS3 supporters are calling them dumb, kiddie, or simpletons.

So now the Nintendo supporters have somewhat of a chip on their shoulder and are out to prove that Wii games are just as sophisticated and/or complex as PS3 games. And then you end up with a thread like this, and then you start getting lists of games or lists of games coming out or whatever.

 So memo to all:

games are GAMES. Games don't determine how smart you are! Just because a game X has a steeper learning curve than game Y doesn't mean game X is more fun. And just because you like game X doesn't make you any smarter than person who likes game Y. 


Kwaad said:

I think this is why there are so many problems between Wii/PS3 people on this forum. The 360 people know they are the best, they have the best console, and they don't see the point in arguing it. Because they are so much better than anything else. The 360 people buy FPS. And lots of them. That's about it for the 360.

The people who like the Wii are typically people who have never owned a Sony system, or only enjoy the simpler games. Katamari, Ratchet & Clank... the Simple, It don't have to be epic, easy to play, games with a 5-10 minute learning curve. The Wii gamers love the new era of Nintendo software, which is typically composed of doing something really simple, and making it fun. They put that one catch in there, that makes you wanna score higher, score better than last time. So you do it again, and again, and again.

The people who like the PS3 typically like the more advanced games, the games that require thinking, that require skill, ability. Games like God of War, GT, Motorstorm, Final Fantasy, KillZone (if you havent played Killzone: Liberation, dont say how complex the game isnt). The Sony people like games that make you think, that make you use your mind. To sit there with the controller in your lap. "Where do I go next" "What am I gonna do about this?"

It is this major diffrence between the two, that I think causes so much problems. People who have trouble playing complex games... they HATE them. It's like playing a game you cant beat. It's too hard, it's impossible. It's no fun. Or the other way around. It's too easy, I can do this game so easily, I can do so much... This game is nothing... Why am I paying 50$ for this? Games had more complexity than this 8 years ago.

It is this great divide that I think there are so many problems between the Wii/PS3 people.

(I was gonna say what each console is doing to appease the other side, but I don't wanna sound biased in this. I'm trying to hold this actually neutral)


 Since when does Sony have complex games, on your list not a single game looked complex or strategic to me. Final Fantasy is a great RPG but honestly it isn't any more complex then Nintendo's Pokemon. 

For being non-biased you seem very pro-Sony anti-Nintendo. I mean just look at the stuff you talk about. The Nintendo user base is massive for a reason not because were all simple minded numb skulls. Notice as your bashing Nintendo for only having simpler games the only titles you can mention are exclusive to Sony's platforms. Sony's platforms do have simple minded games your right you got the point across.

 Point is your so pro-Sony and Biased its not even funny, always try to defend all sides thats how you remove bias. The best thing to do is take a look at the console through others eyes. Would my grandma like this game would the target audience like this game.


Example I pick up the latest Barney game and scream OMG this game sucks its so kiddy. Well I'm not a child so I wouldn't have a clue whether the game is any good. So I have to look at it through their eyes look at what recent polls and things say about the target demographic then look at what is in the game. If I was three again would this game appeal to me 


Your thread did nothing but prove that even the most upright gamers are filled with Bias! 



"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer


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i explain:

people who are x360 core fan like fps but not only this genre!!!

they like online gaming.

microsoft live is really the new on console gaming.

a well structured service.


ps3 core fan come from ps2 side and they simply want a powerfull console.

they play driving games some fps , j-rpg ...and so on...

games like strategic or sims don't have numbers so high has kwaad thinks...

"complex" in game mechanic not in gameplay!!!

f1 is the same game....

nothing really complex as team manager in f1...

a simple driving game...

gt also..

in the and it's false that ps3 has "complex games" 

 also next ff13 has more action...

 j-rpgs in nowdays are really more simple and have more action nothin really "complex"


wii core fan are basically nintendians addicted...

or they are casual gamers coming from nintendo ds experience.

in the and wii like the ds is a console that open the market really.

I see ds like a nes.

they setted a standard.

microsoft simply adapted pc online gaming for their console.

and this was good.

but they reallly only structured and unify something coming from pc .

 but ds is really a revolution in gaming.

and wii is on the way. 


feel free to mix it up with some grammar there, buddy. It looks like you just wrote a poem

I have been thinking about the first post in this thread and I realise that I want Wii, but I do love complex games. I am coming from turnbased pc-strategi, I spend 2 years playing Sid Meiers Alpha Centauri (SMAC), lerning everything. Tyring new strategies, modding and more. Then I jump and bought myself a Cube, I still play some civilization or SMAC but most of the time I play on my consol. Reason? It is very simple to know if the game you bought will work. You don't need to install a lot of shit and it just works. So the origional assumption that Wii owners just want simple games is at least from my point of view not true, of course I do think Wii is attracting more then one typ of person.



Buy it and pray to the gods of Sigs: Naznatips!

Well, complexity is relative, just like fun, just like tastes.

The simple art of playing chess, you only have to move pieces that's all, but is you look beyond that you will find strategy, planing, hours of thinking  the best move to win the game. It's SIMPLE to play and it's a COMPLEX game.

The same case is in videogames, I find games like Metal Gear or Zelda simple to play and I find games like kindom under fire or WoW more difficult to play, you can have the opposite tastes, all depends on your skill.

When you play a race game(Formula 1) the controls are quite simple(Gas, Break, Turn) but if you add other factors like:

Other cars, curves, coalitions, fuel left, max speed, accel of the car, etc.

The game gains more complexity.

In conclusion complexity is in your mind, not in the control, not in the gameplay.

PS Vita and PC gamer

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