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The great sales divide!

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Kwaad said:
FishyJoe said:
The vast majority of the public has no desire to learn complicated control schemes. Believe it or not, many people just want to plunk down a few moments with their friends and have some fun.

Then agree with what I said at the start

EDIT: Just to correct on what I said. The Wii is aimed at those people, meaning they will LOVE it. The PS3 is aimed at people who are the oppisote. Their almost to the point of not being directly competitiors, their concept is so far apart. 


it's not the same thing. The wii makes complex controls look easy.

in godfather when you fight you can do a lot of different movements with only two buttons and motion. and guess what? it feels better, more natural and immersive.



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Kwaad said:
FishyJoe said:
The vast majority of the public has no desire to learn complicated control schemes. Believe it or not, many people just want to plunk down a few moments with their friends and have some fun.

Then agree with what I said at the start

EDIT: Just to correct on what I said. The Wii is aimed at those people, meaning they will LOVE it. The PS3 is aimed at people who are the oppisote. Their almost to the point of not being directly competitiors, their concept is so far apart.


If you had just said that the console appealed to different type of users, then that is hard to disagree with.

But you go off on these crazy tangents that wind up being more fanboy bs than anything. If you want to discuss your fanboy wet dreams, go to a more appropriate forum. This forum is to discuss sales. 



Kwaad said:

What else. the control click method. Good idea. That means the PS3 has around 25 functioning buttons... while the Wii is at 15... Still not enough.

Hmm... Doing a edit on a post ***DESTROYS*** the formatting. How annoying.

Also, with the PS3 controller, I can hold it in 1 hand continue to fly, and use my right hand to use my keyboard. The Wii... I have to sit it in my lap, meaning if I am attacked while it is in my lap, I need to put my hand back down, pick it up, get my hand on it properly. The PS3 controller is as simple as putting your hand back on it, as it is being suspended by your other hand.


Where in the world did you get the erroneous idea that having more buttons means more complexity?  Unless you are talking about making the learning curve more complex...



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I would have to disagree that a more complex controller equals a more complex game.

Chess is a very complex game but it doesn't require anything more then moving little objects on a board.

The game you selected seems designed to use the ps3 controller and showing how the Wii controller can't do it.

All this proves is that a game must be developed from the ground up to use the Wii controller, a complex game is simply one that makes you think hard and has lots to do and takes time to do it.

I believe it is based purely on software and not hardware, getting it to work on the Wii requires writing a game that can get around the limitations of it's controller and using it's strengths.

The CPU is good enough for  AI, A DVD has enough space for storing the code, The controllers can be used to input commands.

These 3 things are enough to make a complex and deep game for the Wii. There is no reason Something like LOZ couldn't be made open ended.

 



"..just keep on trying 'till you run out of cake"

Kwaad said:
Fishy - Why is this not fair and balanced?

 Your argument is weak, Im a Nintendo fanboy and have played every system I just prefer the games on nintendo systems not due to them being simpler, I don't consider games like Zelda simpler, I just consider them better



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

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I think you're getting "complexity" mixed up with "intuitive." Nintendo aims to get people to do stuff without having to think about what button combinations they need to push. If they can do something intuitively, then it increases the immersion into the game.

 The learning curve of a game itself is something completely different and is a game-to-game basis.  It would be erroneous to generalize and make a blanket statement saying that PS gamers prefer more complex games and Nintendo gamers prefer simple games. 

 

 



Find find learning curve the complexity.

Yes, chess is a VERY complex game, yet is it simple.

Try playing chess with a 2button controller. (no d-pad) It becomes a VERY VERY VERY complex procedure.

Use a mouse. and it's so simple it's not even funny. That is my point on the controller.

Less buttons = bad.

My brother actually gave his Wii to his friend.

I like games with massive complexity. And no X3 is NOT designed for a PS3 controller. It is designed for a 10-30 button flight stick.



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Check that, Kwaad. Try a keyboard along with a flight stick.

i'm not going to manage a space station with just a flight stick. Who does?

The RTS is a perfect example of a complex game with not very many buttons. It traditionally hasn't transferred very well because there is yet to be a device that is as dextrous as a mouse. Actual gameplay itself can be done with one or two clicks of the mouse.

and I don't understand what you're trying to get at with the mouse - two button controller analogy. The mouse is analogous (sp?) to what the Wii does. Instead of using a keyboard to play a game like Chess or even any FPS, the mouse has replaced a whole bunch of functions of the keyboard- making a game "simpler" yet more "complex" at the same time.

 

 



It's very simple to play chess using the Wii on a 2D interface which is really far better then a 3D one :)

My points are

1) A game must be made that can use the controller simply and effectively

2) A complex a game is not based on the amount of inputs but what you "DO" in the game.

To me a great game is one thats seems very simple at first but gets more complex and deeper as you get into it. Like a good book.

In Civ you start with one guy who you use to build one city...you don't have a load of options and it's really easy to do...and as you go on you get more units, options and cities. This is why it's one of best games ever made.

The point you are making with X3 is that the Wii isn't really great for direct ports of games that require loads of inputs, here I agree, but that is a different topic :) 



"..just keep on trying 'till you run out of cake"

Sure, a complex control scheme interferes with my enjoyment of the game and in no way defines the complexity of the game.  Most of the RTS/TBS I play use only the mouse and left/right-click or drag-box-click etc but the strategies and different units and buildings or stuff make for very complex play.  Most you get is some hotkeys on the keyboard that basically just act as shortcuts but I've never found them to be strictly necessary.

 Learning which button combination executes which move is not fun and quickly gets boring.  Learning which unit counters this other unit and which magic spell to cast on this bad guy is much more fun, it's actual strategy vs. rote memorization.