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Forums - Sony Discussion - I don't think Sony *gets* the PSP

Smashchu2 said:
shuraiya said:
MrT-Tar said:

People are comparing Sony's 1st party games to Nintendo's, seriously

I love Sony's first party game, but they are nowhere near as good as Nintendo's.  In all honest, no single publisher comes to close to Nintendo quality


Nintendo does have the best 1st party games, but Sony is not far behind in terms of quality. The one thing Nintendo has far more of is reputation. They have been producing these high quality titles for a long time, so when you hear Nintendo, you think quality--Kinda like Ghibli. Sony's absolutely great 1st party efforts are more recent, so they don't yet have that wide spread reputation of quality, but that is quickly changing.

The reason I say they are not even close is that Sony's 1st parties have never made a "must have title," outside of GT. All of those come from third party company. In fact, the best selling game on the PS3 is a third party game. Game like Uncharted, Resistance, Little Big Planet and the Ratchet and Sly games do not pull in enough people. They aren't making the customer go "Wow, I have to buy this game," or "Wow, now I HAVE to get a PS3." Nintendo can do this all the time, which is why their quality is far beyond Sony's development teams.

That not to say they suck or you can't like them, but I argue that they just lack that quality Nintendo has and the sales prove this.

lack of quality or lack of sales?



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Onibaka said:
Smashchu2 said:
shuraiya said:
MrT-Tar said:

People are comparing Sony's 1st party games to Nintendo's, seriously

I love Sony's first party game, but they are nowhere near as good as Nintendo's.  In all honest, no single publisher comes to close to Nintendo quality


Nintendo does have the best 1st party games, but Sony is not far behind in terms of quality. The one thing Nintendo has far more of is reputation. They have been producing these high quality titles for a long time, so when you hear Nintendo, you think quality--Kinda like Ghibli. Sony's absolutely great 1st party efforts are more recent, so they don't yet have that wide spread reputation of quality, but that is quickly changing.

The reason I say they are not even close is that Sony's 1st parties have never made a "must have title," outside of GT. All of those come from third party company. In fact, the best selling game on the PS3 is a third party game. Game like Uncharted, Resistance, Little Big Planet and the Ratchet and Sly games do not pull in enough people. They aren't making the customer go "Wow, I have to buy this game," or "Wow, now I HAVE to get a PS3." Nintendo can do this all the time, which is why their quality is far beyond Sony's development teams.

That not to say they suck or you can't like them, but I argue that they just lack that quality Nintendo has and the sales prove this.

lack of quality or lack of sales?


sales definitely, quality I would agree a little bit.

The only games published by Sony that I thought were true AAA 10/10 fantastic material were Shadow of the Colossus and Little Big Planet.  While some of this might be due to my generally hating F/TPS and therefore the likes of Killzone, resistance, etc don't appeal to me.  While for Nintendo, I can list quite a few AAA 10/10 fantastic games then gen alone, also the only Nintendo series that really doesn't appeal to me is Animal Crossing.

Don't get me wrong, Sony are an amazing publisher (probably my favourite after Nintendo, Square-Enix and Capcom) and I love them, but comparing any developer to Nintendo is just going to lead to one result; Nintendomination




Onibaka said:
Smashchu2 said:
shuraiya said:
MrT-Tar said:

People are comparing Sony's 1st party games to Nintendo's, seriously

I love Sony's first party game, but they are nowhere near as good as Nintendo's.  In all honest, no single publisher comes to close to Nintendo quality


Nintendo does have the best 1st party games, but Sony is not far behind in terms of quality. The one thing Nintendo has far more of is reputation. They have been producing these high quality titles for a long time, so when you hear Nintendo, you think quality--Kinda like Ghibli. Sony's absolutely great 1st party efforts are more recent, so they don't yet have that wide spread reputation of quality, but that is quickly changing.

The reason I say they are not even close is that Sony's 1st parties have never made a "must have title," outside of GT. All of those come from third party company. In fact, the best selling game on the PS3 is a third party game. Game like Uncharted, Resistance, Little Big Planet and the Ratchet and Sly games do not pull in enough people. They aren't making the customer go "Wow, I have to buy this game," or "Wow, now I HAVE to get a PS3." Nintendo can do this all the time, which is why their quality is far beyond Sony's development teams.

That not to say they suck or you can't like them, but I argue that they just lack that quality Nintendo has and the sales prove this.

lack of quality or lack of sales?

Both.

Quality and sales correlate positively. The only way you could say they do not is if you assume that customers buy bad products, which is silly. People will always buy something based on benefit. What gives the most benefit can be defined by what sells the most.



Smashchu2 said:
Onibaka said:
Smashchu2 said:
shuraiya said:
MrT-Tar said:

People are comparing Sony's 1st party games to Nintendo's, seriously

I love Sony's first party game, but they are nowhere near as good as Nintendo's.  In all honest, no single publisher comes to close to Nintendo quality


Nintendo does have the best 1st party games, but Sony is not far behind in terms of quality. The one thing Nintendo has far more of is reputation. They have been producing these high quality titles for a long time, so when you hear Nintendo, you think quality--Kinda like Ghibli. Sony's absolutely great 1st party efforts are more recent, so they don't yet have that wide spread reputation of quality, but that is quickly changing.

The reason I say they are not even close is that Sony's 1st parties have never made a "must have title," outside of GT. All of those come from third party company. In fact, the best selling game on the PS3 is a third party game. Game like Uncharted, Resistance, Little Big Planet and the Ratchet and Sly games do not pull in enough people. They aren't making the customer go "Wow, I have to buy this game," or "Wow, now I HAVE to get a PS3." Nintendo can do this all the time, which is why their quality is far beyond Sony's development teams.

That not to say they suck or you can't like them, but I argue that they just lack that quality Nintendo has and the sales prove this.

lack of quality or lack of sales?

Both.

Quality and sales correlate positively. The only way you could say they do not is if you assume that customers buy bad products, which is silly. People will always buy something based on benefit. What gives the most benefit can be defined by what sells the most.

Quality and sales do not always correlate positively. Take Ico and Shadow of the Colossus for instance. The must-have nature of Nintendo's games speaks more to their reputation than quality. I am aware that reputation was gained from producing quality products, which is why I say Sony's games will need time to develop their own reputation. Massive advertising might guarantee sales of one game or franchise, but it will not transfer to all 1st party games.



I feel very similar to the TC.  I think if Sony's developers were a bit more centralized in their approach to content creation we might see better results. Not that there aren't benefits to having amazing developer cells(Such as high quality games that appeal to me as opposed to "everyone" like Nintendo) it's just without a head or network to combine their talent they aren't as great at creating the image and content needed for accessibility like Nintendo and I honestly don't know who Sony would give such an important job to. Too bad Phil Harrison jumped ship.

 



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makingmusic476 said:

And God of War is hardly the only one.  Jak & Daxter: The Lost Frontier, Ratchet & Clank: Size Matters, MotorStorm: Arctic Edge, and the numerous Socom games are all basically ps2 games, only they're weaker all around.  What's worse is that most of them ended up getting ported to ps2 eventually!  That hardly gives you an incentive to pick up the console.  Why get a PSP for a crappier ps2 experience, especially when most of those games will hit the ps2 anyway?

For Ratchet & Clank: Size Matters, the PS2 version is actually a port of the PSP.

I'm not going to bother reading beyond that since fact checking never happened.



Smashchu2 said:

Quality and sales correlate positively. The only way you could say they do not is if you assume that customers buy bad products, which is silly. People will always buy something based on benefit. What gives the most benefit can be defined by what sells the most.


Not necessarily . If that was the case, WII Sports is the Greatest Game ever created and a game like ICO has little to no quality. 



Words Of Wisdom said:
makingmusic476 said:

And God of War is hardly the only one.  Jak & Daxter: The Lost Frontier, Ratchet & Clank: Size Matters, MotorStorm: Arctic Edge, and the numerous Socom games are all basically ps2 games, only they're weaker all around.  What's worse is that most of them ended up getting ported to ps2 eventually!  That hardly gives you an incentive to pick up the console.  Why get a PSP for a crappier ps2 experience, especially when most of those games will hit the ps2 anyway?

For Ratchet & Clank: Size Matters, the PS2 version is actually a port of the PSP.

I'm not going to bother reading beyond that since fact checking never happened.

"What's worse is that most of them ended up getting ported to PS2 eventually!" 

So, clearly he did not mean that it was literally a port of a PS2 game (PS2->PSP->PS2?), but that figuratively it is a PS2 game crammed onto the PSP.  Part of fact checking is making sure you are correctly interpreting someone's remarks. 



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d21lewis said:

^^^^whoops!  Was planning a reply and wound up quoting that post!

I am "the man with no name" (Zapp Brannigan) so technically, I DID post that...........Anyhoo, my reply was going to be about how I've had Resistance Retribution for five days and I haven't even pressed start because I can't sit aside enough time to play it.  On the other hand, I got Hot Shots Tennis on the exact same day and playing 5-10 minutes at a time, I've already logged in five hours!!


Yeah, and I'm not saying that every PSP game needs to be something that can be enjoyed in 5-10 minute spurts, but they need something that does, and quite frankly, I think that's where Nintendo is eating their lunch when it comes to handheld software. That combined with the PSP losing more third party support because of piracy issues, and yeah, it's not a very pretty picture for the PSP.



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Jay520 said:
Smashchu2 said:

Quality and sales correlate positively. The only way you could say they do not is if you assume that customers buy bad products, which is silly. People will always buy something based on benefit. What gives the most benefit can be defined by what sells the most.


Not necessarily . If that was the case, WII Sports is the Greatest Game ever created and a game like ICO has little to no quality. 

That's exactly the case.

Use logic here. Sales and quality have a positive correlation. The opposite, to say that Sales and Quality have no correlation, makes no sense. To say this you have to say that a game that sells really well might be a bad game, and that would mean people buy bad games. Consumers are always savy, so it makes no sense to say that they might buy bad products. They will always buy good products.

Now take ICO. Some people like it, but most people do not. It never broke any sales records. This doesn't mean it's a horrible product. It does mean it lacks that quality to really break out in the market. People don't want to run a girl though a castle. But they do want to smash turtles and grab flagpoles. Thus, they buy Mario and buy system to play Mario. In this case, Mario is far and above a better quality game. It give the consumer benefit, and people just keep buying them and buying them.

The problem with the game, and a reason it can't break out of the "Cult classic," is because of assesability. ICO to many people is too weird and may not be that fun. The content doesn't make sense to them. It's not easy to just get into. You may say it's a game of high quality, but these are all problems with the product. The consumer immediatly recognizes those problems and moves to another game. The difference here is that ICO sparkels while Mario glows. The sparkles may attract a few people, but it is the glow that distinguishes the game and makes it an instant classic.

There are exceptions to every rule, but for the most part, if a game sells well, than the game is of high quality. I'd say the excetion is things like hype or even a lack of marketing. Nintendo has neither of those, which goes to show their quality.