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The recognition of Faults and Recovery of the JRPG

Forums - Gaming Discussion - The recognition of Faults and Recovery of the JRPG

i think the problem with jrpgs is that they are becoming less and less like jrpgs. they should go back to the old formula so that people who want to play jrpgs can play them and people who want wrpgs will still have those.



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I'm not sure that you're talking about "faults", here. There will be aspects of some games that don't appeal to certain value sets, but that doesn't make those aspects into faults. Trying to please everyone doesn't make sense.

So do you mean "faults", or do you mean aspects that don't appeal to some audiences?



Khuutra said:

I'm not sure that you're talking about "faults", here. There will be aspects of some games that don't appeal to certain value sets, but that doesn't make those aspects into faults. Trying to please everyone doesn't make sense.

So do you mean "faults", or do you mean aspects that don't appeal to some audiences?

I read both faults and aspects as the same thing. There is one side who loves a great story and does not mind dealing with linearity to finish the book on their television screen. Conversely, there are more Western-oriented gamers who want more emergent gameplay where there is a story, but it is a backdrop to the gameworld, which is a sandbox where you can play the story at your own pace and play around aimlessly at times.

Emergent gameplay is a fairly esoteric term  that became readily apparent with Ultima Online. Emergent gameplay is where the developers create a game universe with very little restrictions on how players choose to play the game. In the early stages of Ultima Online, every single best weapon and armor was craftable and purchaseable, you lost all iterms and money for dying, guilds could control towns and levy entrance and other taxes on non-guildies to use the town, and players were allowed to grief other players with no penalties of moderation.

Once Tom Chilton AKA Kalgan in the World of Warcraft (WoW) came along, he and a team created a few expansion packs for Ultima Online, which took away some of this emergent gameplay with a focus on dungeon crawling with a group of players. If a player wanted the best gems to put in their weapons and armor, then they needed 10 other players to go into a dungeon with them to get them. The focus went from the players to the developers. The developers became the drivers of the content.

Now Tom Chilton AKA Kalgan is a big wig lead game designer for the World of Warcraft and I believe his area is PvP, but that may have changed since I quit WoW last July.

If you are interested and want a fascinating story on the demise of Ultima Online, then google "Tom Chilton Ultima Online" and  few other key words such as demise, downfall or fail. You will get forums filled with multi-paragraph explanations on how they perceived him as killing the experience they loved.



 In terms of sales I think the decline is simply that the people who bought JRPG's grew up. They're now 20 something adults with jobs, relationships, families, social lives etc to attend to and the idea of playing a 40 hour epic adventure is just not feasible. I certainly don't have time for JRPG's until my summer holiday from uni...

 And whereas the JRPG 'boom' in the west got tons of teenagers to buy FFVII and then a load of other JRPG's, the teenagers now are playing Call of Duty, Halo etc. 

 So to improve sales I guess there are two trains of thought 1) design a game around what teenagers like now but working the JRPG stuff into it (Which I guess sort of worked for Fallout and Borderlands, albeit not JRPGs) 2) design a JRPG that the millions of people who loved the genre as teenagers can actually find the time to play and enjoy now, which I think has been shown to have some success on the handhelds with the design of JRPG's I've played on them.

 Final Fantasy XIII has shown it is possible for JRPG's to still sell big (Declining sales or not) but it's a very very tough market to break big numbers when the genre leader isn't yet at 5 million (Correct me if I'm wrong lol).



MrT-Tar said:

JRPGs sales are down?

I swear DQ IX is on target to become the best selling Dragon Quest game yet, Pokemon D/P/Pt/HG/SS are selling absolute shitloads and I'm pretty sure Mario and Luigi: BiS has sold more than M&L: SS.


When it comes to Dragon Quest, I approve.  That's because SquareEnix stuck to their roots while improving upon them.



Hackers are poor nerds who don't wash.

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Killiana1a said:
Mad55 said:
Killiana1a said:

Here is why I went from playing JRPGs in the 1990s and early 2000s to exclusively playing WRPGS:

1. Turn-based gameplay of "Attack, Magic, Item" in Final Fantasy, the biggest JRPG series.

Final Fantasy has never wavered from this formula and it is real hard to go back and enjoy them once you play a dynamic, real time WRPG along the lines of Diablo or Borderlands.

2. Linearity to the extreme

I like to explore and no, I don't care about all the 48 hours worth of cutscenes some hotshot Japanese director enjoyed and thought I would enjoy. I don't enjoy them, I want to play a game, not purchase a $60 dollar anime dressed up as a game where you shove your philosophical and political views down my throat.

3.. Overtly feminine males

Why does almost every single JRPG male protagonist look like a sexually confused emo hipster? Where are the scars, ugly faces, bulging biceps, and handlebar mustaches? Seriously, I cannot take seriously a male protagonist who looks like he has not even hit puberty to gain the muscle mass to swing that 20 foot sword he lugs around on his back.

4.. Grinding (stated in an earlier post)

I want to go where I want when I want no matter if I am risking getting 1-shotted. I do not want to spend half an hour in a dungeon or instance to find out that I am a level or five from being able to beat the boss. If I wanted to grind, then I would go back to the World of Warcraft where at least I can have a conversation with a guildie.

oh wow...not many jrps are as you have described.

I am redacting my formal statement because this a genre I love and a battle I will choose.

First, no not all JRPGs are exactly as I described. I am speaking mainly about the JRPGs I have played which include almost every single Final Fantasy game (I have played up till 10), Xenosaga, Suikoden, Brave Fencer Musashi, Secret of Mana, Earthbound, and on.

Not all JRPGs have every single fault I listed. However, all of them do have male protagonists or party member who falls into the sexually confused emo hipster stereotype. Furthermore, JRPGs do have more of an emphasis on leveling and character development before gameplay and exploration as is the reverse in WRPGS. You can play and be good at a Diablo type game spending only a third to half your current skill points. You will die easily and often if you do not level and develop your character properly in a JRPG.

Finally, linearity and a movie like game has become common with Final Fantasy games since Final Fantasy 7. It was very apparent in Final Fantasy 8 and is in your face in Final Fantasy 13. I have a friend who is playing Final Fantasy 13 and he had to get to Ch. 11 or so before he could freely explore the world map. We are talking close to 40 hours of linear gameplay here where the developer gives you no freedom until a certain point.

Earthbounds ? In earthbound no one is emo because the game is around courage and friendship and nobody look like feminine probably because the character are ugly lol.



           Sequel I want the most :

Patapon 3 , Elite beat Agent 2 , ROTK 12 , Mother 4, Legend of legaia      3, Resident Evil outbreak 3.

Favorite Youtube poop        McDonnald                 Morshu              

                                                  

I agree on some level about what Killian1a said; i've played Rogue Galaxy recenetly and i couldnt be bothered to finish it, mainly because i would trudge through a dungeon for 3 - 4 hours, then i would have to watch 30 mins - 45 mins of cutscenes.

FF13 suffers from a similar trend, where theres so many cutscenes. but the massive problem is that FF13's cutscenes feel so empty, the story is sooo bland for the most part. also i've been playing Resonance of Fate, which is a good game, but the story is non existant and that means the games structure feels a bit too repititive and tedious.

although i think theres one exception to the way JRPGs have been going and FF12 is the exception. although the dungeons were a bit too difficult - forcing the game to be a bit too reptitive, the last half of the game was fantastic. pacing, characters, story, music, script - just amazing; i'm sure had Matsuno had finished his work this would've the FF we wanted.



Really often you can tell the personality of character just by looking at is face. If someone look like cheerful , she will be cheerful. If someone look like dark and emo, he will be dark and emo. And that something that really bother me.



           Sequel I want the most :

Patapon 3 , Elite beat Agent 2 , ROTK 12 , Mother 4, Legend of legaia      3, Resident Evil outbreak 3.

Favorite Youtube poop        McDonnald                 Morshu              

                                                  

Weegee said:

Really often you can tell the personality of character just by looking at is face. If someone look like cheerful , she will be cheerful. If someone look like dark and emo, he will be dark and emo. And that something that really bother me.



yea cookie cutter characters the Tales series is famous for those.



@Killiana1a:

That was an interesting story, though only the first paragraph really involved what I was talking about.

@Xxain:

Do you think perhaps you're pigeon-holing JRPGs a little bit? You're referring to cliches of the genre which won't be true for all games, just the ones with lazy design.