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Forums - Sony Discussion - Are Sony's 1st Party Studios Leading The Way?

Torillian said:
Arius Dion said:

Ok. So what we're going to do is use Metacritic as the measuring stick, instead of sales. Is that what we're doing now?


I believe people in the thread have been ignoring the meta as of yet, but I would say it's a much closer metric for quality than sales though not anywhere near perfect because atleast you have people who are supposed to compare the game to everything available over consumers who are under no such obligation.

How is an aggregate of a flawed reviewing system be any better than an aggregate of sales? Quite often the games score is proportional to the banner advertisement the publisher took out on the site and the various reviewer kick backs behind the scenes. Thats without going into inconsistant reviewing between games, hype, and reviewer group think and finally reviewers not being empathetic to the the needs of the gaming population.

Sales are statistical data, and their usefulness is dependant on how the end user presents and interprets them, like all statististical data. The fact that sales are affected by factors outside of the merits of an individual game doesn't preclude them from being useful as the same applies to reviews as well. One doesn't beat the other as a metric for determining the relative quality of games, they are both useful and can be used in conjunction for good effect.



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okr said:

Oh, I didn't argue either that Ratchet & Clank is superior or inferior to its closest competitor. I'm just saying it's one example of a franchise which sells way less - even to devoted Sony fans, who think Sony has generally the superior output - than Nintendo's competitor games to their devoted fans.

Another example: Modnation Racers, which was praised by many Sony fans (and some reviewers) to be better than Mario Kart (which I won't argue either, as these are opinions and I never care anyway which game on what system is the "better" one) and which generally got slightly higher ratings than Mario Kart afaik, sold ~340.000 copies to a  worldwide userbase of >35 million PS3 owners so far. Last week it sold around 20.000 copies worldwde, in its 6th week on the market. Why don't even the devoted Sony fans, who think Sony has the superior games, seem to buy this game?

If we use your 2nd R&C argument for Modnations Racers as well and assume for a moment that "there's no market" for cartoony racers on the system, here's two other examples for people with "evolved" tastes:
Why is Sony's own Killzone 2 with an average rating of ~90 outsold by the latest 3 CoD games on PS3? Why did inFamous, whose announced sequel is already  eagerly awaited by Sony fans, sell only ~1.6 million copies?

The answer is variety. I buy games covering a wide variety of genres, but my neighbour only buy's shooters and racing games. My neighbour is pretty much covered until the next generation because the amount of high quality shooters and driving games is high. The same thing applies to people who only buy RPG's and Hack 'n' Slash, Puzzle games and strategy games, action games and platformer's and etc. Both the PS3 and 360 have a library which covers a far larger variety of quality games, mainly because they have strong third party support.

The Wii doesn't have that amount of variety yet, you pretty much have two buyers on the Wii, the casual audience and then the more core audience. One audience buy's No More Heroes, the other buy's Carnival games and they both buy Nintendo games. Then you have Nintendo's titles limited by either being platformers, Zelda or Mario Kart. There isn't as much competition for my money.

So when Killzone 3 releases, I as a shooter fan have to pick between Killzone 3, Medal of Honour, Gears of War 3, Halo: Reach, Black Ops, Crysis, Resistance 3, Rage, Vanquish and XCom. If I only owned a PS3, I'd have 7 titles to pick from, as someone who own's both consoles it makes it even harder to narrow my purchase to a specific product. The same thing applies to many other genres on the console. 

Devoted Sony fan's probably only probably cover's a few million buyer's, but then those buyer's all have different taste in games and there are enough titles releasing that their all pretty much covered. Just compare the amount of games at E3 for the HD consoles and then compare that to the amount releasing on the Wii and you can see that one completely envelopes another.



Bet with Conegamer and AussieGecko that the PS3 will have more exclusives in 2011 than the Wii or 360... or something.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3879752

WilliamWatts said:
Torillian said:
Arius Dion said:

Ok. So what we're going to do is use Metacritic as the measuring stick, instead of sales. Is that what we're doing now?


I believe people in the thread have been ignoring the meta as of yet, but I would say it's a much closer metric for quality than sales though not anywhere near perfect because atleast you have people who are supposed to compare the game to everything available over consumers who are under no such obligation.

How is an aggregate of a flawed reviewing system be any better than an aggregate of sales? Quite often the games score is proportional to the banner advertisement the publisher took out on the site and the various reviewer kick backs behind the scenes. Thats without going into inconsistant reviewing between games, hype, and reviewer group think and finally reviewers not being empathetic to the the needs of the gaming population.

Sales are statistical data, and their usefulness is dependant on how the end user presents and interprets them, like all statististical data. The fact that sales are affected by factors outside of the merits of an individual game doesn't preclude them from being useful as the same applies to reviews as well. One doesn't beat the other as a metric for determining the relative quality of games, they are both useful and can be used in conjunction for good effect.

Exactly.



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

People's opinion of a game is more improtant to the consumer than the sales are. Unless you're the publisher what do you care how much a game sells.

There are plenty of games that were amazing but were not met with a good amount of sales, and there are plenty of games that got good sales even though they didn't deserve it as much as others.

You can't tell me you use sales of a game over the opinions of people that played the game to decide if you get a game or not.

Honest Review > Sales



TheNoobHolocaust said:

People's opinion of a game is more improtant to the consumer than the sales are. Unless you're the publisher what do you care how much a game sells.

There are plenty of games that were amazing but were not met with a good amount of sales, and there are plenty of games that got good sales even though they didn't deserve it as much as others.

You can't tell me you use sales of a game over the opinions of people that played the game to decide if you get a game or not.

Honest Review > Sales

Is that even Real? there are no "Honest reviews"

 

Everyone has different opinions about a game.



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rockeford2010 said:
TheNoobHolocaust said:

People's opinion of a game is more improtant to the consumer than the sales are. Unless you're the publisher what do you care how much a game sells.

There are plenty of games that were amazing but were not met with a good amount of sales, and there are plenty of games that got good sales even though they didn't deserve it as much as others.

You can't tell me you use sales of a game over the opinions of people that played the game to decide if you get a game or not.

Honest Review > Sales

Is that even Real? there are no "Honest reviews"

 

Everyone has different opinions about a game.

An honest review is what you honestly thought about the game, no bias, sales depend on to many factors like userbase of the console and marketing of the game.

Therefore Honest Review > Sales



Look at the install base Sony has. And look at all the install base the other devs have to work With. Sony is always within the top 6 each year for software sales.

 

If that does not show how good they are then i dont know what does



Nobody's perfect. I aint nobody!!!

Killzone 2. its not a fps. it a FIRST PERSON WAR SIMULATOR!!!! ..The true PLAYSTATION 3 launch date and market dominations is SEP 1st

Serious_frusting said:

Look at the install base Sony has. And look at all the install base the other devs have to work With. Sony is always within the top 6 each year for software sales.

 

If that does not show how good they are then i dont know what does


Install base? Serious? Ps2 had a HUGE install base... and yet games like God of War didnt sell 10 million.

 

Install base has nothing to do with it



TheNoobHolocaust said:
rockeford2010 said:
TheNoobHolocaust said:

People's opinion of a game is more improtant to the consumer than the sales are. Unless you're the publisher what do you care how much a game sells.

There are plenty of games that were amazing but were not met with a good amount of sales, and there are plenty of games that got good sales even though they didn't deserve it as much as others.

You can't tell me you use sales of a game over the opinions of people that played the game to decide if you get a game or not.

Honest Review > Sales

Is that even Real? there are no "Honest reviews"

 

Everyone has different opinions about a game.

An honest review is what you honestly thought about the game, no bias, sales depend on to many factors like userbase of the console and marketing of the game.

Therefore Honest Review > Sales

No, install base has nothing to do with it. Just compare games in the ps2 with games in the ps3.

 

And well... my honest review on a game, might be different than yours. Then... which one will be right?

For example, many people praised Uncharted.... i couldnt even finish it. I didnt like it.

Other people thought God of War III wasnt that great..... for me, is the best the ps3 has.....

 



Sony certainly has better quality games than most developers. But Nintendo still leads the pack in terms of quality, in my humble opinion.