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Forums - Sony Discussion - Are Sony's 1st Party Studios Leading The Way?

Severance said:

they always did to me, but they can't market their games for shit!

U2 was ok but yeah they can't



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Arius Dion said:

Ok. So what we're going to do is use Metacritic as the measuring stick, instead of sales. Is that what we're doing now?


I believe people in the thread have been ignoring the meta as of yet, but I would say it's a much closer metric for quality than sales though not anywhere near perfect because atleast you have people who are supposed to compare the game to everything available over consumers who are under no such obligation.



...

M.U.G.E.N said:

Simple rebuttal: Zelda: Twiliight Princess - not Nintendo's biggest franchise - sold 5 million copies on Wii alone, most of them when Wii's user base was way smaller than PS3's today.

Again, one of my examples:
If Sony's own games are superior according to Sony fans, why does Ratchet & Clank, a franchise with nearly no competition on the same technical and gameplay level in its genre on PS3, a franchise which appeals to "core" and "casual" gamers alike (just as Super Mario games), a franchise which got good ratings and is technically undeniably excellent, struggle to sell 2 million copies of one iteration on PS3 (Tools of Destruction is at 1.96 million, A Crack in Time even sold just a little more than 1 million according to ioi's data)?


Lol zelda isn't one of Nintys biggest franchises? :D oh ok then

and tech superior doesn't mean the games will appeal to 'everyone' ...and again take into consideration the time frame of the games release...the userbase for the ps3 has grown immensely in the past year but it wasn't always going that well in the previous years....

Btw what does this have to do with the topic anyways? :S The quality of games does not equal to sales....and other than in few cases Ps3 games sell pretty well, recent examples being HR and GOW3...MNR for example got eaten up by RDR as did many other games on the HD twins, however even then it outsold the competing racers which were multi-plat in a single console....so yes the fans support quality games

1st bolded: Zelda is curently not even in the top 5. Not even close. Nintendogs, Brain Training, Wii Sports/Resort, Wii Fit/Plus, Super Mario 2D, Super Mario 3D, Mario Kart, Mario Party, Pokémon are their biggest franchises this gen.

3rd bolded: MNR got eaten up by RDR? Now I'm the one to say: oh ok then..., but hey: Maybe MNR's sales will sykrocket once the cruel RDR hype is over. Who knows.

2nd bolded: I would agree if we talked about e.g. Atlus or other small companies' games. But we are discussing Sony games on a Sony system here. So why should the good quality of Sony games not equal to great sales on a Sony system? Where are the big sales to Sony fans on Sony's system this gen? That's my big question about many Sony franchises in a thread that's all about superiority of Sony games. If Sony's own games are superior and "lead the way" (or whatever) according to some devoted Sony fans, why don't the sales of old Sony franchise games on PS3 go significantly up when the userbase rises, why does none of newly released games of Sony's franchises even sell 5 million to a userbase of almost 36 million (the only one that will certainly top 5 million, probably even 10 million, is GT5)?

My only conclusion is: Sony doesn't have as many devoted fans, who at the same time praise the quality of their franchises and also buy the games of these beloved franchises, as it often seems.



Zelda is behind Pokemon and Mario in biggest Nintendo series!

though in my opinion they're all huge.



I live for the burn...and the sting of pleasure...
I live for the sword, the steel, and the gun...

- Wasteland - The Mission.

irstupid said:

Just going to prove my point here about why I find talking with Nintendo "fanboys" better than talking with Sony "fanboys"  If you want to call them that.   Here is two simple questions, one asking what makes Galaxy 2 better than Galaxy 1, and the other asking what makes God of War 3 better than God of War 1 & 2.

dahuman said:
Hynad said:

Answer this. What makes Galaxy 2 so much better than the first game?


Galaxy 2 worked on a core game design that made the game already very good and built on top of it, adding different power ups, a mount, tools for the mount, genius level design that easily outranks the 1st with those new and different power ups in mind, a world hub that is nowhere near as confusing as the original, and starts to kick your ass in the first world and still manages to hold your hand with something like super guide if you are a new gamer which is good for both serious gamers and new comers. A musical score that's even beyond the first Galaxy. Also a girlfriend mode that no longer screws you over. I still don't know how Nintendo does it, the level design they come up with are just so out there beyond the reach of other devs, it's fucking crazy. For example, look at something like Crackdown 2, then look at Galaxy 2, you just can't help but wonder sometimes. We definitely need more devs like EAD Tokyo or ND, that's for sure.

Qays said:

"what makes god of war 3 better than its predicessors?  If god of war 1 & 2 weren't the top dogs, genre defining hack and slash games before, why is god of war 3 now the top dog when it is the same as those?"

Easy: the graphics. God of War is a series whose primary purpose is to wow you with the sheer visual spectacle of killing things in grotesque and badass ways. Graphics don't matter for all games, but for some they certainly do matter.



Well said. You summed the situation up very nicely.



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DirtyP2002 said:

best developer in the world: Lionhead IMO

so... no.


don't you mean lionhead of the past? they made some awesome games in the past, and fable 1 was OK, and then that was it. Now I just want to send Peter M to the coocoo hospital.



M.U.G.E.N said:

GOW3 introduced some fun fluid gameplay with an unpapralled sense of scale and direction (in art and story)...it was already a great franchise and GOW3 was no exception but it was a more complete experience than the previous two in every possible way...the game starts with a bang and doesn't stop the momentum till it ends

As for the graphics, hell yes. The only rival I can think is UC2 which is up to debate....games like Gow3 benefits from great graphics and detail...it helps create the perfect atmosphere for the game and Santa Monica did it brilliantly as well, one can say it was the icing on the cake if you will... :)


You really thought God of War 3 was that good towards the end? The pace was comletely killed and the end boss battles were horrible, I had more fun fighting Zeus in God of War 2 than God of War 3, and the first fight with Zeus in 3 was just rehashed from 2 with some QTE as well only not in black against that other you know, S.....n dood.



Wagram said:
dahuman said:

This is a horrible articles written by someboyd ill informed about the gaming industry. Not to mention PS3 does not lead the technology in anyway or form, we should be praising the devs who  can code around it, not Sony. I have not seen a game better than SMG2 this gen yet on PS3 even though I have a plat trophy from UC2, lead the way my ass.


I can name many great games.


yeah and I've prolly played them



Hynad said:
dahuman said:
Hynad said:

Answer this. What makes Galaxy 2 so much better than the first game?


Galaxy 2 worked on a core game design that made the game already very good and built on top of it, adding different power ups, a mount, tools for the mount, genius level design that easily outranks the 1st with those new and different power ups in mind, a world hub that is nowhere near as confusing as the original, and starts to kick your ass in the first world and still manages to hold your hand with something like super guide if you are a new gamer which is good for both serious gamers and new comers. A musical score that's even beyond the first Galaxy. Also a girlfriend mode that no longer screws you over. I still don't know how Nintendo does it, the level design they come up with are just so out there beyond the reach of other devs, it's fucking crazy. For example, look at something like Crackdown 2, then look at Galaxy 2, you just can't help but wonder sometimes. We definitely need more devs like EAD Tokyo or ND, that's for sure.

There.  That is exactly what I wanted to read.

Basically, they took everything that worked wonders in the first game, and polished everything further.  Adding a few surprises along the way.

My question wasn't to put the greatness of Mario Galaxy 2 into doubt, that would be ridiculous.  It was to make it obvious that Mario Galaxy 2 (or the first one, for that matter) didn't need to reinvent a genre to be concidered as great as it is. 

It didn't reinvent the genre. And I don't think the first game did either.  But Nintendo polished it to some heigths never yet reached for a platformer.

Uncharted 2 did the exact same with the action adventure genre.  It may or not be your cup of tea.  But it's rather difficult to question the amount of polish in Uncharted 2.  Be it the controls, the visuals, the soundtrack, the story, the set-pieces, or just the overall gameplay.

The same goes for God of War 3.  It didn't reinvent the genre.  It polished it to higher heights, while still being a God of War game.  (The game does put you into incredibly epic situations every now and then.  And it's certainly the only game that made me go "WTF FREAKING AWESOME I NEED TO CATCH MY BREATH"-ish out loud, after only 20 minutes of gameplay.

I've stated earlier in this thread that for me, my opinion, my view on things, Sony has this generation reached a level of polish in their games that only Nintendo had before them.

Nintendo's games have wowed me again and again.  Even if I don't necessarily love all of their games (even in the series I love the most like Zelda and Metroid) they still offer an incredible level of polish in all of those.

This gen's Sony games are doing the same for me.

Oh I obsolutely love UC2, they did such a good job that I was wowed by every moment when I first played it. God of War 3...... uh..... it was just so bad towards the end that the awesome meter dropped A LOT for me. SMG2 is still top dog at this point in time though, it's so good, fuck it's good, they don't even need a real story or HD graphics and it's still just that fucking good. I still don't know how Nintendo does that shit.



Qays said:

" I have not seen a game better than SMG2 this gen yet on PS3"

Demon's Souls.


I played Demon's Souls like I was on crack, still not as good as SMG2, sorry man.