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Locked: Are Sony's 1st Party Studios Leading The Way?

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yes they are leading now



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TheNoobHolocaust said:

...with the Wii you also get good games, but most of them are platformers or RPGs...

Oh, I wished.

OT:
Here's the one question that I always ask myself and now ask other people when it comes to Sony's games:

First, I sometimes secretely laugh at some Nintendo fans when I see how extremely devoted they are to "their" company. Following E3 some of them already seem to plan to buy every Nintendo remake on 3DS and every upcoming Nintendo Wii title (and I bet many of them will neglect the 3rd party offerings on Nintendo's systems again, but they'll later defend those same 3rd party games  - which they haven't bought - in sales threads; latest example: MH Tri), but there's one thing you can't deny: They buy "their" company's games in truckloads (not all IPs, I know, see e.g. PunchOut and Pikmin, but many of them).

As this thread proved again, Sony seems to have many devoted fans (just like Nintendo), so why don't so many of their praised and often highly rated own games sell better (latest example is Modnation Racer)? Why did, for example, "only" 3.5 million PS3 owners buy Uncharted 2, a game which got so much praise by reviewers and fans as being technically and even narratively outstanding that you think it would've sold between 7 and 10 million copies by now? Why did God of War 3 sell "only" 2.7 million copies so far? Why is Killzone 2 "only" at 2.33 million copies and outsold by all CoD shooters on PS3? Why is the best selling Ratchet & Clank of this gen struggling to make it to 2 million, despite having only few competitors  (if any) on the same technical level in its genre on PS3? 

So, here's finally my real question:
If Sony's own games - according to their devoted fans - lead the industry technically and enhance the industry like no other (to quote from the OP: "However when it comes to groundbreaking, genre changing, industry enhancing titles, you’ll find them under one roof: Sony’s third major console, the venerable PlayStation 3."), why does it feel that all those many Sony fans support "their" company more by defending the company in internet threads than with higher games sales?

[Just  for the record, in case someone thinks I "hate" Sony or Nintendo: I own Wii/DS/PS3/PSP, I like all 4 systems and bought more than 150 games for them combined. I don't hate companies and I don't hate their fans, I just try to understand this 100% devotion to one company]



MaxwellGT2000 said:
Qays said:

" I have not seen a game better than SMG2 this gen yet on PS3"

Demon's Souls.


I love Demon's Souls just as much as the next guy but no, I mean not only my own opinion versus yours but just about every arbitrary way to judge quality leans in SMG2's favor.

Reviewers = SMG2 > Demons Souls

Sales = SMG2 > Demons Souls

Gamer reception = SMG2 > Demons Souls 

So really the mass consensus is SMG2 > Demons Souls, and it boils down to your opinion vs his which isn't going to definitively prove him wrong or you right  

I'm willing to admit that SMG2 may be a better game than Demon's Souls. It's a matter of opinion, at the very least - they're both excellent games.

But SMG is one of a small handful of truly great games on the Wii. In terms of overall performance it's pretty hard to argue that Sony isn't the better developer this gen. They've developed flagship titles that go head to head with (and frequently dominate) the best games in the industry in a wide variety of genres. Nintendo hasn't managed anything comparable.



irstupid said:

Just going to prove my point here about why I find talking with Nintendo "fanboys" better than talking with Sony "fanboys"  If you want to call them that.   Here is two simple questions, one asking what makes Galaxy 2 better than Galaxy 1, and the other asking what makes God of War 3 better than God of War 1 & 2.

dahuman said:
Hynad said:

Answer this. What makes Galaxy 2 so much better than the first game?


Galaxy 2 worked on a core game design that made the game already very good and built on top of it, adding different power ups, a mount, tools for the mount, genius level design that easily outranks the 1st with those new and different power ups in mind, a world hub that is nowhere near as confusing as the original, and starts to kick your ass in the first world and still manages to hold your hand with something like super guide if you are a new gamer which is good for both serious gamers and new comers. A musical score that's even beyond the first Galaxy. Also a girlfriend mode that no longer screws you over. I still don't know how Nintendo does it, the level design they come up with are just so out there beyond the reach of other devs, it's fucking crazy. For example, look at something like Crackdown 2, then look at Galaxy 2, you just can't help but wonder sometimes. We definitely need more devs like EAD Tokyo or ND, that's for sure.

Qays said:

"what makes god of war 3 better than its predicessors?  If god of war 1 & 2 weren't the top dogs, genre defining hack and slash games before, why is god of war 3 now the top dog when it is the same as those?"

Easy: the graphics. God of War is a series whose primary purpose is to wow you with the sheer visual spectacle of killing things in grotesque and badass ways. Graphics don't matter for all games, but for some they certainly do matter.



I'm not a fanboy is the reason why I try to explain lol, I'm just a gamer. I also explained God of War3, as far as I'm concerned, UC2 was still the deal maker for me, God of War 3 was pretty awesome but it simply wasn't really a better game vs the previous 2, and I saw a lot of room for improvement since the game didn't change much.



It's a matter of opinion, I personally don't find any of these games gamplay enhancing or groundbreaking, with the exception of Heavy Rain...I personally thing that there's not a single company enaching games, it's a different matter from game to game.



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okr said:
TheNoobHolocaust said:

...with the Wii you also get good games, but most of them are platformers or RPGs...

Oh, I wished.

OT:
Here's the one question that I always ask myself and now ask other people when it comes to Sony's games:

First, I sometimes secretely laugh at some Nintendo fans when I see how extremely devoted they are to "their" company. Following E3 some of them already seem to plan to buy every Nintendo remake on 3DS and every upcoming Nintendo Wii title (and I bet many of them will neglect the 3rd party offerings on Nintendo's systems again, but they'll later defend those same 3rd party games  - which they haven't bought - in sales threads; latest example: MH Tri), but there's one thing you can't deny: They buy "their" company's games in truckloads (not all IPs, I know, see e.g. PunchOut and Pikmin, but many of them).

As this thread proved again, Sony seems to have many devoted fans (just like Nintendo), so why don't so many of their praised and often highly rated own games sell better (latest example is Modnation Racer)? Why did, for example, "only" 3.5 million PS3 owners buy Uncharted 2, a game which got so much praise by reviewers and fans as being technically and even narratively outstanding that you think it would've sold between 7 and 10 million copies by now? Why did God of War 3 sell "only" 2.7 million copies so far? Why is Killzone 2 "only" at 2.33 million copies and outsold by all CoD shooters on PS3? Why is the best selling Ratchet & Clank of this gen struggling to make it to 2 million, despite having only few competitors  (if any) on the same technical level in its genre on PS3? 

So, here's finally my real question:
If Sony's own games - according to their devoted fans - lead the industry technically and enhance the industry like no other (to quote from the OP: "However when it comes to groundbreaking, genre changing, industry enhancing titles, you’ll find them under one roof: Sony’s third major console, the venerable PlayStation 3."), why does it feel that all those many Sony fans support "their" company more by defending the company in internet threads than with higher games sales?

[Just  for the record, in case someone thinks I "hate" Sony or Nintendo: I own Wii/DS/PS3/PSP, I like all 4 systems and bought more than 150 games for them combined. I don't hate companies and I don't hate their fans, I just try to understand this 100% devotion to one company]

simple answer = size of the current userbase ..it's only now that the ps3 user base is increasing nicely and even then it's pretty smaller compared to the wii's.....



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I'd also say that the number of gamers simultaneously interested in genres as various as adventure games, first-person shooters, RPGs, racing games, and platformers is relatively limited. Sony-developed games also seem to strive to be the best in their respective genres even at the expense of accessibility, which probably further limits their ability to sell ridiculous quantities.



M.U.G.E.N said:
okr said:
TheNoobHolocaust said:

...with the Wii you also get good games, but most of them are platformers or RPGs...

Oh, I wished.

OT:
Here's the one question that I always ask myself and now ask other people when it comes to Sony's games:

First, I sometimes secretely laugh at some Nintendo fans when I see how extremely devoted they are to "their" company. Following E3 some of them already seem to plan to buy every Nintendo remake on 3DS and every upcoming Nintendo Wii title (and I bet many of them will neglect the 3rd party offerings on Nintendo's systems again, but they'll later defend those same 3rd party games  - which they haven't bought - in sales threads; latest example: MH Tri), but there's one thing you can't deny: They buy "their" company's games in truckloads (not all IPs, I know, see e.g. PunchOut and Pikmin, but many of them).

As this thread proved again, Sony seems to have many devoted fans (just like Nintendo), so why don't so many of their praised and often highly rated own games sell better (latest example is Modnation Racer)? Why did, for example, "only" 3.5 million PS3 owners buy Uncharted 2, a game which got so much praise by reviewers and fans as being technically and even narratively outstanding that you think it would've sold between 7 and 10 million copies by now? Why did God of War 3 sell "only" 2.7 million copies so far? Why is Killzone 2 "only" at 2.33 million copies and outsold by all CoD shooters on PS3? Why is the best selling Ratchet & Clank of this gen struggling to make it to 2 million, despite having only few competitors  (if any) on the same technical level in its genre on PS3? 

So, here's finally my real question:
If Sony's own games - according to their devoted fans - lead the industry technically and enhance the industry like no other (to quote from the OP: "However when it comes to groundbreaking, genre changing, industry enhancing titles, you’ll find them under one roof: Sony’s third major console, the venerable PlayStation 3."), why does it feel that all those many Sony fans support "their" company more by defending the company in internet threads than with higher games sales?

[Just  for the record, in case someone thinks I "hate" Sony or Nintendo: I own Wii/DS/PS3/PSP, I like all 4 systems and bought more than 150 games for them combined. I don't hate companies and I don't hate their fans, I just try to understand this 100% devotion to one company]

simple answer = size of the current userbase ..it's only now that the ps3 user base is increasing nicely and even then it's pretty smaller compared to the wii's.....

Simple rebuttal: Zelda: Twiliight Princess - not Nintendo's biggest franchise - sold 5 million copies on Wii alone, most of them when Wii's user base was way smaller than PS3's today.

Again, one of my examples:
If Sony's own games are superior according to Sony fans, why does Ratchet & Clank, a franchise with nearly no competition on the same technical and gameplay level in its genre on PS3, a franchise which appeals to "core" and "casual" gamers alike (just as Super Mario games), a franchise which got good ratings and is technically undeniably excellent, struggle to sell 2 million copies of one iteration on PS3 (Tools of Destruction is at 1.96 million, A Crack in Time even sold just a little more than 1 million according to ioi's data)?



"If Sony's own games are superior according to Sony fans, why does Ratchet & Clank, a franchise with nearly no competition on the same technical and gameplay level in its genre on PS3, a franchise which appeals to "core" and "casual" gamers alike (just as Super Mario games), a franchise which got good ratings and is technically undeniably excellent, struggle to sell 2 million copies of one iteration on PS3 (Tools of Destruction is at 1.96 million, A Crack in Time even sold just a little more than 1 million according to ioi's data)?"

1. I don't think anyone is arguing that Ratchet and Clank is superior to its closest Nintendo competitor. I certainly am not. Super Mario Galaxy is undeniably the better game. What I am arguing is that the overall output of Sony studios is superior to that of any other developer.

2. The reason Ratchet and Clank doesn't have any high-quality competitors on the PS3 may well be that there simply isn't a market for cartoony platformers on the system. I'm a lifelong PlayStation gamer and I certainly have fond memories of playing Crash Bandicoot and Spyro on the PS1, but my tastes have evolved since then. I'm not even sure I would buy Super Mario Galaxy if it were to be accidentally released on the PS3.

Also, would someone teach me how to quote without actually pressing the quote button?



Qays said:

"no i'm not saying these games aren't quality, i'm just merely asking what makes them so much more quality than their predecessors.

and if you read up a couple posts where i quote two different people one explaining why God of War 3 is better than its predicessors and why Galaxy 2 is better than its predecessor is my main gripe."

I don't see what your gripe is. Could you explain it?


one person gives a great detailed explanation about all the new and great things which made it better than the prior game, while you basically just say god of war 3 is so much better than its predicessors because the graphics are better.