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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Pachter Time: Abandon Ship... Every Pubisher by itself....

makingmusic476 said:
Buzzi said:

I would agree with him if it didn't matter what game you buy. If the only remarkable release Wii had this quarter was Super Mario Galaxy 2 (and Monster Hunter 3) how did he expect Wii software to do extremely well? While Xbox 360 and PS3 had Red Dead Redemption for example...they're doing better than we but he chose the wrong month to make this statement, the percentage are just wrong, like saying the Xbox is selling 200k per week when it has just now and for few weeks!

I don't see how a month including Super Mario Galaxy 2 would put the Wii's software sales in a negative light compared to other months.

Granted, it's no NSMB or Wii Fit, but it's still one of the Wii's best selling franchises.


It is, but is the only big game of this quarter and probably until Wii party. Sure, the Wii is doing bad compared to last year or to 2008, but this data shows that the HD consoles are selling great and the Wii very bad...that isn't fair: HD consoles are selling well, Wii not so much softwarewise. It's like taking this week's hardware sales and say that the Xbox is dominating in the Americas! it isn't, you can say that after weeks, months...not just based on one week (even one month is not that correct).



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makingmusic476 said:

Isn't he basically saying that sales are down because publishers aren't producing enough software for the platform?

That's what I take this statement to mean:

"but fear that other publishers have prematurely abandoned the very large Wii audience,"

He's not saying abandon ship.  He's saying publishers have already begun leaving the platform, which he believes is premature.

What is wrong with that?

Thank the gods of the internet for you, sir or madam.

Pachter is being very factual here. He isn't claiming Wii is doomed or doing his usual trick of demanding a Wii HD-he's stating third parties have abandoned the platform prematurely, and that in turn has resulted in lower software sales for Wii. It makes sense, and the numbers support it. Third parties have been moving away from Wii in the last 6 months, and Pachter thinks they were premature in doing that. He's actually being positive in his evaluation of the Wii, if you think about it.

Oh, he also praises Nintendo's support for the system, which is nice of him. He certainly does not describe the system as or imply the system is a sinking ship.



I was gonna make a comment similar to that of makingmusic's, because that's what I understood here.

 

But I guess when you have Pacther's reputation and such a controversial title, it can easily be overlooked.



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Snesboy said:
Buzzi said:
irstupid said:

i love attach rates and percentages arguments used.  do they think we are morons?

lets use simple numbers for showing of game sales (purely fictional, just proving  a point)

Nintendo: 100 games in 09' and 90 games in 10'

Sony & MS: 25 games in 09' and 50 games in 10'

oh look both Sony and Microsoft improved software sales by 100%, while Nintendo declined by 10%

Now onto attach rates

Nintendo has 75 million Wii's sold and has sold 750 million software units.  Attach rate = 10:1

Sony & MS has 50 million of their consoles each sold and has sold 750 million software each units.  Attach rate = 15:1

Percentages and attach rate mean shit.  Its actual numbers.  A developter would chose concrete numbers over % or AR all the time.  If you sell 5 million of your game, that is it, you sold 5 million.  Congrats.  Who gives a shit if that 5 million on PS3 means the attach rate is higher, due to less hardware out there versus Wii.  5 million is 5 million regardless of other factors.

Pretty much /thread

LOL


/thread

Actually not /thread.  More like /not understanding Pachter's job.

Percentages actually matter very very much for Pachter's PAYING audience, i.e. investment funds.  Stock price are driven by growth expectations.  Those growth expectations are driven by SALES growth.  Pachter is saying that not only was there sales contraction but the addressable market grew.  That is VERY unhealthy state of affairs for software makers.



Alic0004 said:
makingmusic476 said:

Isn't he basically saying that sales are down because publishers aren't producing enough software for the platform?

That's what I take this statement to mean:

"but fear that other publishers have prematurely abandoned the very large Wii audience,"

He's not saying abandon ship.  He's saying publishers have already begun leaving the platform, which he believes is premature.

What is wrong with that?


That's exactly what I was wondering.  I really need to just learn not to come into these threads any more


I've learned that long ago, most of my comments for these threads are "why is anyone giving this old fool a voice again?" mostly because the industry "analysts" all seem like they failed both math and logic classes in college.  Though some of it is the articles spin the data their own way rather than use it in context of what was actually said, which isn't Pachter's fault, but if he didn't state such stupid shit sometimes then it'd be harder to believe what others say about his comments when they state some absurd bullshit.

Anyway people just need to ignore him, if he doesn't get attention then he doesn't have a job



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Resident_Hazard said:
Beuli2 said:
Resident_Hazard said:

Well, for once Pachter isn't making asinine predictions, he seems to be stating negative sales data for the Wii over the last year.

Which, of course, is the way the last few Nintendo consoles have gone.  System launches successfully, system gets decent 3rd party support and attention, Nintendo fans refuse to buy games or support 3rd party efforts, 3rd party companies abandon sinking ship.

The casual audience that bought the Wii as a barely-used fad doesn't help things.  For as high as the sales are for the Wii, individual game sales should be much higher to match.


Oh boy, not one of those guys again... ¬¬

So it doesn't bother you that the Wii largely gets ignored where "serious" gamers are concerned because Wii owners ignore serious games?

Or that the Wii appears to be moving in a direction close to the N64's latter years--where the quality releases were so few and far between, it was like the system didn't even exist anymore? 

Pachter clearly dislikes the Wii, but when you compare the Wii to another successful console, like the Playstation, Playstation 2, or SNES--it's clear that the Wii is poorly supported by third party companies, and by owners.  Except, of course, for games released by Nintendo and a lot of that casual crap.

I'm pretty sure that if you own a Wii and an Xbox360 or PS3 (or all three), that these days we're playing the HD console way more.  I know I am.  The Xbox360 has more games, higher quality games, and a much higher number of highly rated titles.  The Wii still has only 10 games averaging a score of 90% or better compared to 29 on the Xbox360 and 26 on the GameCube (via Metacritic). 

The Wii certainly isn't the high-speed sinking ship Pachter makes it out to be, but just like the N64, once again, it's largely supported by just Nintendo.  When 3rd party companies tried to make games for the Wii, casual folks and Nintendo fans ignored them, thanks to ignorance of gaming and what I can only surmise as elitism, respectively.

It would be illogical thinking to just blindly assume Nintendo is always doing great while ignoring signs of struggle.  Healthy cynicism never hurt anything.  Gross optimism, however... Sure, they had a great E3, but that was entirely due to the 3DS and the strong 3rd party support the 3DS has so far.  Which I'm sure will be squandered in favor of a game re-released and lightly upgraded from 13 years ago.

I think the SNES was the last time Nintendo had a console that didn't just fizzle and die lamely the last two years of it's lifecycle.  The N64 was on life support as it died of starvation the last two years on the market, the GameCube was the same way, and the Wii is approaching that as well.  Meanwhile, the Playstation, PS2, and Xbox managed a plethora of healthy releases and sales beyond their generally assumed "end date."

But whatever, I guess.  Saying anything bad about Nintendo around insanely worshipping Nintendo fans is akin to drawing pictures of Mohammad and mailing them to Mecca.  Dissent and differing views shall not be tolerated.  Because Nintendo never does anything wrong *coughvirtualboy64ddgamecubeonlinewiionlinewiiflashmemorygbacardreader thirdportunderthegamecubethatwasneverusedevilbotcheddealwithsonyforadiscdrive whoringoutbelovedfranchisestophillipscdipowerglovetrackmatwiispeaketcetcetccough*.

The problem with your argument is that you are equating mediocre 3rd party support to meaning a console is dying.. 3rd parties are not the end all be all of console success, I think Nintendo should have proven that by now with the huge success of the Wii. In fact, most 3rd party companies can't make games equal of quality to Nintendo's anyway (which is probably why many have given up).

NOTHING indicates the Wii is anywhere near dying. It is currently outpacing the PS2 in terms of both hardware and software. It has a chance to be one of the highest selling consoles of all time, if the the highest. And yet you are equating it with the N64 and Gamecube? LOL give me a break..

But if you really want to use the 3rd party argument (because that is all you have left against the Wii), let's look at some of the titles coming.. Conduit 2, Epic Mickey, The Grinder, Call of Duty: Black Ops, Xenoblade, The Last Story, Goldeneye, DQX, Arc Rise Fantasia, De Blob 2, Lost in Shadow, Samurai Warriors 3, LOTR: Aragorn's Quest, NBA Jam, Ravving Rabids Travel in Time, DJ Hero 2, Sonic 4, Sonic Colors, Just Dance 2, Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Flip's Twisted World, Tournament of Legends, Legend of the Guardians, Tales of Graces. Some other quality titles like Monster Hunter 3, Little King's Story, No More Heroes 2, Red Steel 2, COD: Reflex,  Tatsunoko vs Capcom, and Fragile have also come out recently. This doesn't exactly look like the lineup of a dying console to me.

Of course it's much weaker than Nintendo's lineup. But this will always be the case for Nintendo consoles until Nintendo games start going down drastically in quality. I think the Wii is proof that 3rd parties no longer dictate the market leader, like in the PS1 and PS2 days.

This is why I hate Patcher. His delusional arguments breed more delusional arguments like this one.



Metallicube said:
Resident_Hazard said:
Beuli2 said:
Resident_Hazard said:

Well, for once Pachter isn't making asinine predictions, he seems to be stating negative sales data for the Wii over the last year.

Which, of course, is the way the last few Nintendo consoles have gone.  System launches successfully, system gets decent 3rd party support and attention, Nintendo fans refuse to buy games or support 3rd party efforts, 3rd party companies abandon sinking ship.

The casual audience that bought the Wii as a barely-used fad doesn't help things.  For as high as the sales are for the Wii, individual game sales should be much higher to match.


Oh boy, not one of those guys again... ¬¬

So it doesn't bother you that the Wii largely gets ignored where "serious" gamers are concerned because Wii owners ignore serious games?

Or that the Wii appears to be moving in a direction close to the N64's latter years--where the quality releases were so few and far between, it was like the system didn't even exist anymore? 

Pachter clearly dislikes the Wii, but when you compare the Wii to another successful console, like the Playstation, Playstation 2, or SNES--it's clear that the Wii is poorly supported by third party companies, and by owners.  Except, of course, for games released by Nintendo and a lot of that casual crap.

I'm pretty sure that if you own a Wii and an Xbox360 or PS3 (or all three), that these days we're playing the HD console way more.  I know I am.  The Xbox360 has more games, higher quality games, and a much higher number of highly rated titles.  The Wii still has only 10 games averaging a score of 90% or better compared to 29 on the Xbox360 and 26 on the GameCube (via Metacritic). 

The Wii certainly isn't the high-speed sinking ship Pachter makes it out to be, but just like the N64, once again, it's largely supported by just Nintendo.  When 3rd party companies tried to make games for the Wii, casual folks and Nintendo fans ignored them, thanks to ignorance of gaming and what I can only surmise as elitism, respectively.

It would be illogical thinking to just blindly assume Nintendo is always doing great while ignoring signs of struggle.  Healthy cynicism never hurt anything.  Gross optimism, however... Sure, they had a great E3, but that was entirely due to the 3DS and the strong 3rd party support the 3DS has so far.  Which I'm sure will be squandered in favor of a game re-released and lightly upgraded from 13 years ago.

I think the SNES was the last time Nintendo had a console that didn't just fizzle and die lamely the last two years of it's lifecycle.  The N64 was on life support as it died of starvation the last two years on the market, the GameCube was the same way, and the Wii is approaching that as well.  Meanwhile, the Playstation, PS2, and Xbox managed a plethora of healthy releases and sales beyond their generally assumed "end date."

But whatever, I guess.  Saying anything bad about Nintendo around insanely worshipping Nintendo fans is akin to drawing pictures of Mohammad and mailing them to Mecca.  Dissent and differing views shall not be tolerated.  Because Nintendo never does anything wrong *coughvirtualboy64ddgamecubeonlinewiionlinewiiflashmemorygbacardreader thirdportunderthegamecubethatwasneverusedevilbotcheddealwithsonyforadiscdrive whoringoutbelovedfranchisestophillipscdipowerglovetrackmatwiispeaketcetcetccough*.

The problem with your argument is that you are equating mediocre 3rd party support to meaning a console is dying.. 3rd parties are not the end all be all of console success, I think Nintendo should have proven that by now with the huge success of the Wii. In fact, most 3rd party companies can't make games equal of quality to Nintendo's anyway (which is probably why many have given up).

NOTHING indicates the Wii is anywhere near dying. It is currently outpacing the PS2 in terms of both hardware and software. It has a chance to be one of the highest selling consoles of all time, if the the highest. And yet you are equating it with the N64 and Gamecube? LOL give me a break..

But if you really want to use the 3rd party argument (because that is all you have left against the Wii), let's look at some of the titles coming.. Conduit 2, Epic Mickey, The Grinder, Call of Duty: Black Ops, Xenoblade, The Last Story, Goldeneye, DQX, Arc Rise Fantasia, De Blob 2, Lost in Shadow, Samurai Warriors 3, LOTR: Aragorn's Quest, NBA Jam, Ravving Rabids Travel in Time, DJ Hero 2, Sonic 4, Sonic Colors, Just Dance 2, Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Flip's Twisted World, Tournament of Legends, Legend of the Guardians, Tales of Graces. Some other quality titles like Monster Hunter 3, Little King's Story, No More Heroes 2, Red Steel 2, COD: Reflex,  Tatsunoko vs Capcom, and Fragile have also come out recently. This doesn't exactly look like the lineup of a dying console to me.

Of course it's much weaker than Nintendo's lineup. But this will always be the case for Nintendo consoles until Nintendo games start going down drastically in quality. I think the Wii is proof that 3rd parties no longer dictate the market leader, like in the PS1 and PS2 days.

This is why I hate Patcher. His delusional arguments breed more delusional arguments like this one.


Quoted for Truth.



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

TheWon said:
irstupid said:

i love attach rates and percentages arguments used.  do they think we are morons?

lets use simple numbers for showing of game sales (purely fictional, just proving  a point)

Nintendo: 100 games in 09' and 90 games in 10'

Sony & MS: 25 games in 09' and 50 games in 10'

oh look both Sony and Microsoft improved software sales by 100%, while Nintendo declined by 10%

Now onto attach rates

Nintendo has 75 million Wii's sold and has sold 750 million software units.  Attach rate = 10:1

Sony & MS has 50 million of their consoles each sold and has sold 750 million software each units.  Attach rate = 15:1

Percentages and attach rate mean shit.  Its actual numbers.  A developter would chose concrete numbers over % or AR all the time.  If you sell 5 million of your game, that is it, you sold 5 million.  Congrats.  Who gives a shit if that 5 million on PS3 means the attach rate is higher, due to less hardware out there versus Wii.  5 million is 5 million regardless of other factors.


Thank You for having common sense. They tried this once before about which system users are connect online more. Saying the Wii was dead last. The PS3 and 360 had like over 70% while the Wii online had 53%. 53% Percentage of the 70 million plus user base is still more people online. Compared to 70% of 40 million and 70% of 35.


Truth.



Hackers are poor nerds who don't wash.

This is actual analysis rather than prediction.

Basically, he seems to be saying that the Nintendo consoles are seeing decreases while the PS3 and Xbox 360 are seeing increases -- from 2009 to 2010.  He also says that some companies  have abandoned the Wii.

What he  does not discuss is the actual market position or matters from anything more than an American perspective.

Still, I noticed the source "Industry Gamers" which relishes in putting out anything negative about the Wii.

 

Mike from Morgantown



      


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For once, Pachter is correct: the Wii is suffering from poor software sales, software companies appear to be reluctant to release titles for the Wii, either there isn't enough quality software on the Wii or there is and the userbase just doesn't care enough to buy it--thus lower software sales, and developers/publishers are moving away from the huge Wii install base, which he thinks is premature.

How is any of that wrong, anti-Nintendo, or advocating publisher panic and console abandonment?

Reading comprehension.