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Forums - General Discussion - Common misconceptions about Christianity.

garvey0 said:
Final-Fan said:

So I guess Communism is miraculous also, because of how it spread like wildfire, even taking over whole countries despite being oppressed by those same countries, and also had God's favor. 

To be honest I know very little about the communist revolutions that have taken place, so I'll briefly share my thoughts on that and concede that I might be wrong.

I see communism as similar to any other political revolution in which the government has become so corrupt and oppressive that the people have almost no choice but to advance a new or alternative political ideology for the sake of mere survival.  Things like this have happened in politics all throughout history and continue to happen today.  In the realm of personal belief systems being born in the face of persecution, however, Christianity is still unique. 

Well, it was pretty damn bad, but considering how bad Russia was a lot of the time under the czars, I don't know if your hypothesis really flies. 

And no, Christianity is not not NOT the only belief system born under persecution, or even to flourish. 



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Pearls before swine.  You dogs will return to your vomit.



Repent or be destroyed

Have you ever heard of Falun Gong?  At first China didn't care, but when it started getting really popular China started cracking down.  People were jailed and even tortured to death. 

Of course the whole story is a little bit more complicated, but the parallels are very striking. 



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garvey0 said:
sapphi_snake said:
garvey0 said:
FaRmLaNd said:

Many people who were in many cases born in countries dominated by one theology all persist that theirs is the right theology over others. Add on top of that, all of the dead theologies that had people that thought just the same way in their time (and yet people laugh off thor for example now). Many theologies also existed long before monotheism (just being in the spirit of this thread) aswell.

I ask the question of religious people in this thread (who happen to be mainly Christian because thats what this thread is about), how do you reconcile that different cultures both dead and existing in many cases have/had different dominant religions and all of them think/thought that theirs is the correct faith at the time. I found that very difficult to reconcile intellectually when I was a Christian.

Of course I'd assume that faith, is the answer. But seemingly every different theist from every theology has just as much faith as the next and they all claim to have personal experiences with their God/Gods.

Does this huge number of active and dead religions weigh heavily on any of the Christians in this thread?

My main answer to you is very simple:  If one of those dead religions had been true, then I very strongly believe that God (or goddess, or gods, depending on the religion) would have preserved it and not allowed it to die out.  I can't imagine that God (or gods or goddesses) would give a true communication to humans through a religion and then allow it to be completely forgotten.

As far as existing religions go, I'll say this.  I became a believer in God about 3 and a half years ago.  I did not immediately go to Christianity.  I feel that God wants us to worship Him according to His true character, and in order to find out which religious text (if any) described who God actually is I listened a huge number religious texts in audio.  The God that I had experienced was perfectly characterized in the Bible.  Bare in mind that I was very unfamiliar with the Bible, nor was I even subconsciously in line with its principals or characterization of God (for the most part, and I did examine myself fairly.)

I don't take God's character lightly.  I was sure to explore every alternative with an open mind and an open heart.  Without an open mind and an open heart, the believers of Jesus' time would have never accepted Him.

 

On top of this, I will provide another very strong evidence (proof in my opinion) for Christianity's validity.  All of the 10 of the 11 apostles who claimed to see and speak with the resurrected Jesus were martyred (john, the brother of james, was the only one who died a natural death - and he still faced hardships due to his claims.)  These men were not acting based on a religion that someone had told them about, they were acting based on something (the resurrected Jesus) that they claimed to have saw.  They either truly saw Jesus resurrected, or they had created a lie.  I find it very unlikely that 10 men would be willing to go to their graves based on a story that they had made up.  Also we have paul who claimed to have seen the resurrected Jesus on the occasion where he was struck blind.  He lived a difficult life and spent a great deal of time in prison before he was eventually put to death.  Again, I don't believe he would have gone through all that for the sake of a vision that he made up.

Also, we have the fact that Christianity was heavily persecuted for the first 300 years of its existence yet it grew like crazy.  No other religion that I'm aware of began in such a way.  Most religions grew in their infant years by governmental force.  Christianity was exactly the opposite, it grew in spite of a government that was very hostile towards it.  It did not become accepted by the government until the year 313 AD.  Christianity continues to grow in countries like china in a very similar fashion.  Pbs, which is hardly a pro-Christian channel, did a documentary called "Jesus in china" on Christianity's amazing growth in the officially atheist nation of china which you can watch for free on their website (http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/china_705/video/video_index.html) I believe that in order for the religion to have grown in the way that it did, the hand of God had to have been the driving force.


Drop the persecution card, it gets old. Christians persecuted many more and caused more atrocities that were caused to them. And you're wrong saying that Chrisitanity grew in spite of the government. While the Roman government persecuted christians initially, the same government eventually made Christianity legal and the only official religion of the empire. People who didn't want to convert were persecuted, tortured, and treasures from pagan temples were confiscated in order to build churches. If it wasn't for the Roman Government chrisitanity wouldn't be at all widespread today.

My point was that the religion was born and grew in the midst of persecution.  Jesus, his apostles, and all of the believers for the first 300 years were persecuted.  Before the government legalized the religion it had already grown exponentially against all odds.  What happened after that first 300 years cannot not erase for cancel out what happened during it.

What is currently happening in china is worth mentioning again too, because it's truly astonishing and the chinese government has tried all they can to stop or (more recently) contain and regulate the growth but they cannot.

Also, this is a little bit off topic and has little to do with the point that I made, but I'd like to add something.  During the historical time periods where persecution was done in the name of Christ, it's important to keep in mind that not least amongst the persecuted were those who tried to promote true Christianity.  I highly doubt that the persecutors were true believers because if they were then they wouldn't have blatantly disobeyed Christ.  There were many Christians who stood up and tried to promote true Christianity but were put to death.  Those, for the most part, are the true believers.  And from that perspective, (true) Christianity has always been persecuted at least to some extent.

The most shameful part of all of this is that much of the religious persecution in history could have been stopped if only us humans had the courage to merely speak up on behalf of the oppressed.  That's all it ever would have taken for the persecution to stop was enough people to merely voice their opinion against it.  How can we blame God for this when we have been the ones who have time and time again seen injustice and thought to ourselves "well it's none of my business."  And then we look back in the history books and instead of blaming our human ancestors we blame intangible things such as religions/ideas when we are indisputably the ones who thought up the idea of hatred.

Spare me with the "true" christian argument. If they beleived in Christ they were "true" christians. They may have been oppressed for 300 years, but christians still oppress people even today.

And honestly I really don't think that any christian ever spoke up , for example, on behalf of the oppressed indigenous tribes in central and South America who were tortured and forced to give up their religion and convert to Christianity, not because they didn't have the courage but because they thought that those pesky pagans were getting what they deserved. Actually I believe that Europeans considered it  perfectly legal and justifiable to murder a non-christian back then, so I don't think most of them found anything wrong with oppressing others as long as they themselves were not oppressed. True hypocrisy.

And there's nothing unique about christianity. It spread through violence and foreced indoctrination like any other popular religion. Good thing Chinese commies keep religious extremists at bay. One of the only good things about that regime.



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thanny said:

There are a couple of things that have been mentioned in the creation thread (and also, things that i have heard before in quite a few places) that i think need to be cleared up. I am sure that many of you are aware of this, or do not care. I am also sure that there are some people that need to learn some more before they argue about Christianity.

One thing is that many seem to think (and i can see how they get that impression) that Christianity is a religion based on deeds; ie, following all the rules of the bible so you are good enough to get into heaven. This is what every other religion i have studied is based on, but is not what Christianity is based on. Christianity is the belief that Jesus Christ is the son of God, and believing in him is solely sufficient to have eternal life in heaven.

This of course brings up the question 'Then why do good things if you are a christian'. The answer to this is that if you truly believe in God, you will love him, and wanting to do good things will stem from this. A simple example is that if you really love your wife, you would not treat her badly every day, but instead work to please her and make her happy.

The other thing is that many people condemn christianity and christians for the laws of the old testament. By this i mean the arguement of 'You can't believe in some of the bible and not all of it'.

The old testament is the law before Jesus Christ.

God cannot be near sin. This means that for a person to be with God they must be completely without sin. This is why the old testament has many laws or whatever about animal sacrifice. The sacrifice pays for the sins, and thus the individual can be in the presence of God. Jesus Christ dying on the cross was a sacrifice for the sins of everyone, making these laws obsolete.

The arguement that can then be brought up following this is that there is no reason to, now, follow the ten commandments as a christian. This is not the case, because while Jesus essentially rewrote the laws of how we should live, he completely covered for all 10 commandments with 2 laws: Love your neighbour as yourself, and love the Lord your God with all you heart, soul and mind.

Ultimately, if you actually read the bible, this stuff is pretty clear. Also I would be happy to try and explain anything else like this if anyone is actually interested. I do not want to, however, argue about whether or not God is real. This thread isn't intended be any sort of Christianity V Athesiam debate, nor am I attacking anyone.

You are sooo wrong and use no sources. Please post the sources, i have marked/bolded the places where you are wrong, if you want to i can show you where what you are saying is againts christianity/the bible. 



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sapphi_snake said:

Spare me with the "true" christian argument. If they beleived in Christ they were "true" christians. They may have been oppressed for 300 years, but christians still oppress people even today.

And honestly I really don't think that any christian ever spoke up , for example, on behalf of the oppressed indigenous tribes in central and South America who were tortured and forced to give up their religion and convert to Christianity, not because they didn't have the courage but because they thought that those pesky pagans were getting what they deserved. Actually I believe that Europeans considered it  perfectly legal and justifiable to murder a non-christian back then, so I don't think most of them found anything wrong with oppressing others as long as they themselves were not oppressed. True hypocrisy.

And there's nothing unique about christianity. It spread through violence and foreced indoctrination like any other popular religion. Good thing Chinese commies keep religious extremists at bay. One of the only good things about that regime.


People need to underatnd that violence and forced indoctrination is NOT Christianity.  Christians and so-called Christians as just as imperfect as non-Christians.  Everyone by nautre is a hypocrite.  So because Christians are just as imperfect as anyone else doesn't invalidate the awesomeness of God.  In religion it's your works and good deeds that "save" you.  In Christianity, it's what's already been done by the Savior.  I know I'm going to heaven because Jesus is my savior, and I thankful of the great things he has done in my life.  Since it's so awesome, why would I not want everyone else to experience the same thing?  As I mentioned in a previous post, I do good work as a witness because I am saved, not to be save because I already am.  There are "bad" Christians out there that tarnishes the image of what Christianity should be.  Just because a relatively few people are the bad apples in the group doesn't mean the whole group should be categorized as such.  This applies to all groups.  No exceptions.



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NKAJ said:

"Christianity is the belief that Jesus Christ is the son of God, and believing in him is solely sufficient to have eternal life in heaven"

I was a catholic and i was always told that your deeds are far more important...quite frankly if believing in Jesus would be sufficient enough to  get into heaven then i think that's ridiculous.


Ephesians 2:8-9

Paraphrase: Through grace and grace alone so that no man may boast.



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@Jordahn

What's so awesome about God? Honestly he reminds me of Big Brother from George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty Four. Also having lived all my life in the second most religious European country after the Vatican, which of course is overwhelmly chrisitan, and having been raised by a fundametalist christian family, I wouldn't be so sure about getting into heaven that easily if i were you. Of course I presume you're from one of those pesky sects they were telling us at school to avoid. So you're probably gonna go to hell just because of that.

And of course christianity like all religions is all about violence and indoctrination. How else would it stay alive?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:

@Jordahn

What's so awesome about God? Honestly he reminds me of Big Brother from George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty Four. Also having lived all my life in the second most religious European country after the Vatican, which of course is overwhelmly chrisitan, and having been raised by a fundametalist christian family, I wouldn't be so sure about getting into heaven that easily if i were you. Of course I presume you're from one of those pesky sects they were telling us at school to avoid. So you're probably gonna go to hell just because of that.

And of course christianity like all religions is all about violence and indoctrination. How else would it stay alive?

[“Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit.]



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sapphi_snake said:

What's so awesome about God?

[For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable;]

 

[But the very hairs of YOUR head are all numbered.]

 

[For I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers  nor height nor depth nor any other creation will be able to separate us from God’s love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.]



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