Quantcast
Zelda was pushed back to refine visual style, says Shigeru Miyamoto!

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Zelda was pushed back to refine visual style, says Shigeru Miyamoto!

Final-Fan said:
theprof00 said:
Final-Fan said:
theprof00 said:

I don't like (recent) Zeldas (with the exception to wind waker) due to (similar gameplay and style) which I can prove my point by (use of the same kinds of items, albeit in different packages like the zora mask/steel boots/iron boots) , (same camera angles and movement, all shoulder cam or fixed cam with some FPS cam, takes place in a large overworld), and (same things to do, Poe hunting, beat dungeon->collect item->use item to unlock new dungeon->beat dungeon, epona stuff, rubies and hearts in grass) as examples, I just hoped the next one would have changed this up.

beat dungeon->collect item->use item to unlock new dungeon->beat dungeon
rubies and hearts in grass
same camera angles and movement
takes place in a large overworld

How are these not characteristic of every Zelda game ever?  (For camera, I should say that I mean all the 2Ds (but one) have the same camera angle, and all the 3Ds likewise to themselves, including TWW.  Because, in fact, there are a few different angles/viewpoints used universally by games.)

except that those first ones were the first ones to have them, which changed. It changed from zelda, to link, to LttP. Zelda was open world, you could go anywhere, link was a process of going from one side to the other, and LttP had areas that needed to be unlocked. LttP is also the first one to have rubies in grass.

There are many examples of how these games are different from each other, but have similarities with the new games. The difference is, they did their aspects first and now they all do it.

Well, the newer ones also have stuff that they do that the ones before didn't.  So lack of new things shouldn't be the problem.  Perhaps, then, the problem is that Zelda doesn't drop its old (oft beloved) gameplay mechanics? 

What would you prefer they drop to make you happy?  Or can I consider your earlier list an answer to that?  You'd like never before seen camera angles and no overworld, for instance? 

They don't have to drop them. Just change them. Like, for instance, overworld is fine, but try something different, like they did in Link. Or make it really linear until a certain point in which you can easily travel back. Something like in final fantasy games where you walk around and then get a canoe which can only travel on rivers, and then get  a raft, or a low flying hot air balloon, each with their own ways of combating enemies. Similar to spirit tracks, but not mandatory for the whole game. Keep it refreshing by changing the way you get attacked and attack. It would be like if in spirit tracks, you can upgrade your cannon to rapid fire, or collect powerups to make you travel faster or whatnot, then get a balloon and drop bombs from above, and then ride a bull and stampede your enemies. etc etc Really anything is better than running around->upgrade to epona->upgrade epona

For camera angle, howabout some world view, or areas where the the camera is fixed, hiding elements of the level until you get an item that changes your view. Say, the camera is actually a fairy, and the game is you watching link through her eyes, in certain areas, the fairy is frightened and cannot leave a certain area until you kill a certain thing, or until you get some item or some such. Or whatabout parts where it goes into a side-scroller for a mini-game kind of thing.



Around the Network
theprof00 said:
Final-Fan said:

Well, the newer ones also have stuff that they do that the ones before didn't.  So lack of new things shouldn't be the problem.  Perhaps, then, the problem is that Zelda doesn't drop its old (oft beloved) gameplay mechanics? 

What would you prefer they drop to make you happy?  Or can I consider your earlier list an answer to that?  You'd like never before seen camera angles and no overworld, for instance? 

They don't have to drop them. Just change them. Like, for instance, overworld is fine, but try something different, like they did in Link. Or make it really linear until a certain point in which you can easily travel back. Something like in final fantasy games where you walk around and then get a canoe which can only travel on rivers, and then get  a raft, or a low flying hot air balloon, each with their own ways of combating enemies. Similar to spirit tracks, but not mandatory for the whole game. Keep it refreshing by changing the way you get attacked and attack. It would be like if in spirit tracks, you can upgrade your cannon to rapid fire, or collect powerups to make you travel faster or whatnot, then get a balloon and drop bombs from above, and then ride a bull and stampede your enemies. etc etc Really anything is better than running around->upgrade to epona->upgrade epona

For camera angle, howabout some world view, or areas where the the camera is fixed, hiding elements of the level until you get an item that changes your view. Say, the camera is actually a fairy, and the game is you watching link through her eyes, in certain areas, the fairy is frightened and cannot leave a certain area until you kill a certain thing, or until you get some item or some such. Or whatabout parts where it goes into a side-scroller for a mini-game kind of thing.

The fairy thing actually sounds kind of interesting. 

HEY!  LISTEN! 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan said:

The fairy thing actually sounds kind of interesting. 

HEY!  LISTEN! 

?



Skyward Sword graphic style reminds me Oracle of seasons



theprof00 said:
Cactus said:
theprof00 said:

It's more like:

Make Ocarina of time. Everyone likes it.
Make Ocarine of time:MajorasMask. Everyone likes it, but feel need for something different.
Make WW. Everyone hated it.
Make Ocarina of time:Twilight Princess. Everyone hates it. So tired of Ocarina of time, now thankful for having something different in Wind Waker.
Make Ocarina of time:Skyward Sword. Everyone hates it. So tired of Ocarina of time, now just thankful for having an artstyle change.

That's how I see it.


Majora's Mask was a very different experience compared to OoT, and we know absolutely nothing about SS, so calling it another OoT is unsubstantiated.

Also, complaining is different from hating. There were a lot of complaints about WW and TP, but, for the most part, people played tham and enjoyed them.

I think it's safe to say that all those games are very similar to each other.

Look at the first zeldas and how they evolved and tell me that recently zelda hasn't stagnated. To tell the truth, I would love to play a top down 2d zelda again with some creativity to make it more modern.

In fact a new one similar to adventures of link would be great. Just without the switch in screen. Just drop the camera to ground level, go into "over the shoulder cam" and fight a group of monsters in that way. Have some areas as side scrolling at an angle and some lazer shooting swording again.

Hey Im with ya Prof.

If Zelda dosen't change its ways soon I'm going to find myself a non-Zelda fan. Enough is enough time for a drastic change imho.

But they wont and gamers have no one to blame but themselves. Look at Zelda>Zelda 2. I don't know who was around for that shit-storm but it was not well recieved to say the least? Nuff said.

FYI Zelda 2 is my 2nd favorite Zelda after OoT. And, after the first game, I find it the most fun of all of them to play though multiple times.



Around the Network

Ya know what Zelda needs. Usefull items and stuff.

Like I don't want to get items that i only use at certian times or for specific reasons.

In ALTTP there were a lot of items that were glorified keys. You needed ______ items to get past _____ spot. Zelda 2 had some usefull spells. A heal and a shield were nice to have and the magic was cool.

Its not really fair of me, because im not sure what i want from a Zelda game, I just know I need something more.

Maybe Zelda aint for me anymore....that makes me very /sadface



theprof00 said:
Cactus said:
theprof00 said:

It's more like:

Make Ocarina of time. Everyone likes it.
Make Ocarine of time:MajorasMask. Everyone likes it, but feel need for something different.
Make WW. Everyone hated it.
Make Ocarina of time:Twilight Princess. Everyone hates it. So tired of Ocarina of time, now thankful for having something different in Wind Waker.
Make Ocarina of time:Skyward Sword. Everyone hates it. So tired of Ocarina of time, now just thankful for having an artstyle change.

That's how I see it.


Majora's Mask was a very different experience compared to OoT, and we know absolutely nothing about SS, so calling it another OoT is unsubstantiated.

Also, complaining is different from hating. There were a lot of complaints about WW and TP, but, for the most part, people played tham and enjoyed them.

I think it's safe to say that all those games are very similar to each other.

Look at the first zeldas and how they evolved and tell me that recently zelda hasn't stagnated. To tell the truth, I would love to play a top down 2d zelda again with some creativity to make it more modern.

In fact a new one similar to adventures of link would be great. Just without the switch in screen. Just drop the camera to ground level, go into "over the shoulder cam" and fight a group of monsters in that way. Have some areas as side scrolling at an angle and some lazer shooting swording again.

Majora's Mask is so structurally and thematically different from the rest of the series, I think it's safe to say you have no real idea what you're talking about.  About all it reused from OOT was the engine and controls.  I mean really, MM is about the biggest divergence the series has seen besides Zelda II (I don't count Four Swords junk).

And if you want a top down Zelda with some creativity injected, Nintendo just released two of those on DS...



The graphics reminds me of that mission in Oblivion where you go into that painting. Oh I loved that mission.



jarrod said:
theprof00 said:
Cactus said:
theprof00 said:

It's more like:

Make Ocarina of time. Everyone likes it.
Make Ocarine of time:MajorasMask. Everyone likes it, but feel need for something different.
Make WW. Everyone hated it.
Make Ocarina of time:Twilight Princess. Everyone hates it. So tired of Ocarina of time, now thankful for having something different in Wind Waker.
Make Ocarina of time:Skyward Sword. Everyone hates it. So tired of Ocarina of time, now just thankful for having an artstyle change.

That's how I see it.


Majora's Mask was a very different experience compared to OoT, and we know absolutely nothing about SS, so calling it another OoT is unsubstantiated.

Also, complaining is different from hating. There were a lot of complaints about WW and TP, but, for the most part, people played tham and enjoyed them.

I think it's safe to say that all those games are very similar to each other.

Look at the first zeldas and how they evolved and tell me that recently zelda hasn't stagnated. To tell the truth, I would love to play a top down 2d zelda again with some creativity to make it more modern.

In fact a new one similar to adventures of link would be great. Just without the switch in screen. Just drop the camera to ground level, go into "over the shoulder cam" and fight a group of monsters in that way. Have some areas as side scrolling at an angle and some lazer shooting swording again.

Majora's Mask is so structurally and thematically different from the rest of the series, I think it's safe to say you have no real idea what you're talking about.  About all it reused from OOT was the engine and controls.  I mean really, MM is about the biggest divergence the series has seen besides Zelda II (I don't count Four Swords junk).

And if you want a top down Zelda with some creativity injected, Nintendo just released two of those on DS...

Dude I got 4 words for ya...

3D Dot Game Heros......=0)



jarrod said:
theprof00 said:
Cactus said:
theprof00 said:

It's more like:

Make Ocarina of time. Everyone likes it.
Make Ocarine of time:MajorasMask. Everyone likes it, but feel need for something different.
Make WW. Everyone hated it.
Make Ocarina of time:Twilight Princess. Everyone hates it. So tired of Ocarina of time, now thankful for having something different in Wind Waker.
Make Ocarina of time:Skyward Sword. Everyone hates it. So tired of Ocarina of time, now just thankful for having an artstyle change.

That's how I see it.


Majora's Mask was a very different experience compared to OoT, and we know absolutely nothing about SS, so calling it another OoT is unsubstantiated.

Also, complaining is different from hating. There were a lot of complaints about WW and TP, but, for the most part, people played tham and enjoyed them.

I think it's safe to say that all those games are very similar to each other.

Look at the first zeldas and how they evolved and tell me that recently zelda hasn't stagnated. To tell the truth, I would love to play a top down 2d zelda again with some creativity to make it more modern.

In fact a new one similar to adventures of link would be great. Just without the switch in screen. Just drop the camera to ground level, go into "over the shoulder cam" and fight a group of monsters in that way. Have some areas as side scrolling at an angle and some lazer shooting swording again.

Majora's Mask is so structurally and thematically different from the rest of the series, I think it's safe to say you have no real idea what you're talking about.  About all it reused from OOT was the engine and controls.  I mean really, MM is about the biggest divergence the series has seen besides Zelda II (I don't count Four Swords junk).

And if you want a top down Zelda with some creativity injected, Nintendo just released two of those on DS...

Except for the mask use, ocarina use, switching through time, time based interactions, all the masks were just substitutes for items from ocarina, like zora mask for steel boots etc. they are very similar, but tone and story I think, are better.

Read my responses just above to maxwell and final fan about what I think of spirit tracks.