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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Megaton! Not sure what else I can use to describe Nintendo's E3 event.

noname2200 said:
Slimebeast said:

I noticed the interference part but was only later when he tried to fly the bug and stuff.

But how on earth can exact 1:1 be borderline unplayable?

Did you miss the archery demonstration?  Anyhow, the folks who play it are reporting little interference, so I wouldn't be concerned.

As to 1:1...when was the last time you went fencing?

There was big interference when he did archery yes.

What do u mean fencing? No I dont do fencing in real life.



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Slimebeast said:

There was big interference when he did archery yes.

What do u mean fencing? No I dont do fencing in real life.


Accurately positioning your sword to hit where you want to isn't as easy as you'd think, especially when you have an opponent who's trying to stop you.  It'd take more effort and coordination to do this throughout the game than most people would prefer to give: I'd love every second of it myself, but I'm pretty sure most people who tried 1:1 controls would ultimately prefer to NOT go with such a demanding control scheme.



Soriku said:
Slimebeast said:
Soriku said:
Slimebeast said:

Nintendo sure won. They crushed everything.

Now I dunno if this is the right thread for it, but Zelda motion controls didnt look anywhere near 1:1. There was a noticable, and for me game-breaking, lag. Graphically too, I was underwhelmed. Damn, Im almost upset because it didnt give me the epic moment I was hoping for.

Epic Mickey looked awesome though.

And obviously DK Country is gonna rock.

I didnt catch if that Kirby game was for DS or Wii. Hopefully the Wii. It looked cute. But maybe it was meant for smaller children, not grown up men like me??

Did you see the Kotaku video of Zelda? http://kotaku.com/5564197/the-legend-of-zelda-skyward-sword-video-preview-starring-me The impressions from other people say the controls are good.

Also Kirby is for the Wii...and there's no such thing as a "grown up" Kirby.

I watched that video. I hope I can get acustomed to it, but I really hate lag...

So u mean all kirby games are for children?


I don't mean Kirby games are for children because many adults play Kirby too of course. It's just...you're probably judging the game on the art style right? Well Kirby isn't a game that is expected to have a mature type of art style.

Art style... yes and no. Mario has a kiddy art style but it can be played by adults too. The smalles kids cant even handle Mario games, right?

But as in.. u know Nintendogs. Nintendogs is intentionally made for really small kids. Even a 4 year old can play it right? Viva Pinata is also for very young kids (I think lol), like pre-school and up.

So compared to the above, where does Kirby stand? I mean the new game looked like a platform game where u pick gold stars much like in Mario. But is this Kirby game like a very easy and simple Mario Bros Wii?



Nintendo showed who is the leader of gaming bitches!!



Slimebeast said:
jarrod said:

There was wireless interference during the presentation.  It's not exact 1:1 either (that'd be borderline unplayable really) it's basically approximated like Wii Sports Resort into a more comfortable "game" ratio.

But how on earth can exact 1:1 be borderline unplayable?

1:1 is the videogamers wet dream, but in reality it is incredibly hard for multiple reasons.

1) if the person isn't skilled in that area they will suck. Tennis, fencing, sword fighting, etc... all take real life skill that most people will not be able perform adequately

2) collision detection isn't possible or is very tough. You swing the sword and it hits the enemies shield and bounces off. But you swung through in real life. Now what do you do? does the sword quickly jump? But what if you already swung the opposite direction? what now? With no physical force feedback the player looses connection with the game and the immersion is broken

There are more complications along the lines of: did you move the sword or swing to hurt someone? If you don't swing hard enough does the sword not cut the enemy? if you make it too easy to cut, then really slow slices do mega damage to the bad guy right?

what people want is an approximation of real life. Something they can achieve with minimal investment in the game. They can quickly learn the controls and master them. They feel like they are doing it in real life even if it is just an approximation. You create a suspension of belief so that people enjoy the game rather than get frustrated with it.

I don't want true 1:1. What I want is controls that feel like I'm doing it, but make it easy to control and the gameplay fun.




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nordlead said:
Slimebeast said:
jarrod said:

There was wireless interference during the presentation.  It's not exact 1:1 either (that'd be borderline unplayable really) it's basically approximated like Wii Sports Resort into a more comfortable "game" ratio.

But how on earth can exact 1:1 be borderline unplayable?

1:1 is the videogamers wet dream, but in reality it is incredibly hard for multiple reasons.

1) if the person isn't skilled in that area they will suck. Tennis, fencing, sword fighting, etc... all take real life skill that most people will not be able perform adequately

2) collision detection isn't possible or is very tough. You swing the sword and it hits the enemies shield and bounces off. But you swung through in real life. Now what do you do? does the sword quickly jump? But what if you already swung the opposite direction? what now? With no physical force feedback the player looses connection with the game and the immersion is broken

There are more complications along the lines of: did you move the sword or swing to hurt someone? If you don't swing hard enough does the sword not cut the enemy? if you make it too easy to cut, then really slow slices do mega damage to the bad guy right?

what people want is an approximation of real life. Something they can achieve with minimal investment in the game. They can quickly learn the controls and master them. They feel like they are doing it in real life even if it is just an approximation. You create a suspension of belief so that people enjoy the game rather than get frustrated with it.

I don't want true 1:1. What I want is controls that feel like I'm doing it, but make it easy to control and the gameplay fun.


I agree. Save that other stuff for holodecks.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

@ OP

Umm yeah, I'm getting lost in all these threads . . . i don't even know how I got in this one  . . . .



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LordTheNightKnight said:
nordlead said:
Slimebeast said:
jarrod said:

There was wireless interference during the presentation.  It's not exact 1:1 either (that'd be borderline unplayable really) it's basically approximated like Wii Sports Resort into a more comfortable "game" ratio.

But how on earth can exact 1:1 be borderline unplayable?

1:1 is the videogamers wet dream, but in reality it is incredibly hard for multiple reasons.

1) if the person isn't skilled in that area they will suck. Tennis, fencing, sword fighting, etc... all take real life skill that most people will not be able perform adequately

2) collision detection isn't possible or is very tough. You swing the sword and it hits the enemies shield and bounces off. But you swung through in real life. Now what do you do? does the sword quickly jump? But what if you already swung the opposite direction? what now? With no physical force feedback the player looses connection with the game and the immersion is broken

There are more complications along the lines of: did you move the sword or swing to hurt someone? If you don't swing hard enough does the sword not cut the enemy? if you make it too easy to cut, then really slow slices do mega damage to the bad guy right?

what people want is an approximation of real life. Something they can achieve with minimal investment in the game. They can quickly learn the controls and master them. They feel like they are doing it in real life even if it is just an approximation. You create a suspension of belief so that people enjoy the game rather than get frustrated with it.

I don't want true 1:1. What I want is controls that feel like I'm doing it, but make it easy to control and the gameplay fun.


I agree. Save that other stuff for holodecks.

My sentiments exactly. 

All those who truly want 1:1... I respectfully say, go out there and play the real thing.  For me I think the thing thats more important is making sure the lag is manageable, or lack of would be better.



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nordlead said:

2) collision detection isn't possible or is very tough. You swing the sword and it hits the enemies shield and bounces off. But you swung through in real life. Now what do you do? does the sword quickly jump? But what if you already swung the opposite direction? what now? With no physical force feedback the player looses connection with the game and the immersion is broken

There are more complications along the lines of: did you move the sword or swing to hurt someone? If you don't swing hard enough does the sword not cut the enemy? if you make it too easy to cut, then really slow slices do mega damage to the bad guy right?

I agree with the rest of your post. This conclusion isn't wrong, but there is an answer to it. I've presented this many times, but not for a long time. I'll keep it simple.

Many games already use natural collision detect for damage. It's not hard to do. Boomblox is a fine example. It's elementary game physics. What the matter is as you point out is weapons hitting the opponent. Well here it is. Stumble. If a weapon strike would not penetrate the on screen representaton stumbles. The weapon on screen as does the character bounces back. This causes an unsync between game and player. The character then slowly recovers until he matches the players estimated position. The Character syncs back when he matches the players position. That's important. If a Player instead moves to match the on screen characters Position then sync occurs MUCH faster. This lends itself to a form of recovery system. See easy  as pie. No difficulty on collision to damage, no issue with weapons slicing through.

As for slow attacks doing mega damage. Not needed. just weight he velocity of the attack to damage. The greater the whack the more the bounce back if it occurs. This would create a very tactile gameplay. Small hits cause less bounce back, but low damage, but allows for fast syncing. Where as Heavy hits cause bigger bounce back, more damage, longer sync time because of the greater degree of difference between controller and character.

Also personally. I think if they did do 1:1 sword fighting. I believe many gamers would rise up the challenge to learn some real basic moves of sword fighting. I doubt they could take it on the street, but enough to get the buy really well in games.

I tried testing this sword fighting out personally, but GlovePie script engine SUCKS, SUCKS, SUCKS.



Squilliam: On Vgcharts its a commonly accepted practice to twist the bounds of plausibility in order to support your argument or agenda so I think its pretty cool that this gives me the precedent to say whatever I damn well please.

nordlead said:
Slimebeast said:
jarrod said:

There was wireless interference during the presentation.  It's not exact 1:1 either (that'd be borderline unplayable really) it's basically approximated like Wii Sports Resort into a more comfortable "game" ratio.

But how on earth can exact 1:1 be borderline unplayable?

1:1 is the videogamers wet dream, but in reality it is incredibly hard for multiple reasons.

1) if the person isn't skilled in that area they will suck. Tennis, fencing, sword fighting, etc... all take real life skill that most people will not be able perform adequately

2) collision detection isn't possible or is very tough. You swing the sword and it hits the enemies shield and bounces off. But you swung through in real life. Now what do you do? does the sword quickly jump? But what if you already swung the opposite direction? what now? With no physical force feedback the player looses connection with the game and the immersion is broken

There are more complications along the lines of: did you move the sword or swing to hurt someone? If you don't swing hard enough does the sword not cut the enemy? if you make it too easy to cut, then really slow slices do mega damage to the bad guy right?

what people want is an approximation of real life. Something they can achieve with minimal investment in the game. They can quickly learn the controls and master them. They feel like they are doing it in real life even if it is just an approximation. You create a suspension of belief so that people enjoy the game rather than get frustrated with it.

I don't want true 1:1. What I want is controls that feel like I'm doing it, but make it easy to control and the gameplay fun.

That was a great explanation. I'm finally starting to get it.