When I say fail, I mean fail to meet fanboys expectations as system sellers and changing the outcome of this gen's console war . Imo I do see Natal possibly moving Wii fit numbers (not so sure about Move) as a stand alone (not budles with 360). But I really don't see either of these new implementations from Sony or M$ as game changers. Though I very well could be proven wrong.

What are your thoughts?

I would definitely agree on Move, and I'm unsure about Natal atm. I don't think it could put 360 at a point of competing with Wii for overall sales, but it could have a noticeable affect on sales whereas I have a hard time seeing Move do the same.

I think that is a cool story, and you are entitled to your opinion. If Natal actually works it'll have a much better chance then if it doesn't. If move can be bundled well it have a better chance too.

as of now.... I dont recall anybody saying Move and Natal will be factors in the outcome in this gen..ever. The usually argument is will they get better 3rd party support then Wii.

i dont think either will sell well. i believe that the majority of 360 and ps3 owners are the "hardcore gamer" who like more of the same and traditional controllers.

motion controls have little appeal to the hardcore gamer.

so that leaves the casual market that the wii currently dominates

and i seriously doubt that casual gamers who own the wii are going to invest a second console.

PS move has a chance to do well i believe because it is so similar to the wiimote. however i do not see people going out and buying a ps3 just to use move.

natal i feel is way ahead of its time and i dont think microsoft can can offer it at a low price without dumbing the machine down.

i dont think natal is going to offer any complex games for the hardcore because having no controller will make for very simple control schemes

and like PSmove i dont think it will be a huge system seller

I don't really recall anyone saying that they will have a great effect on the outcome of the generation...

I don't think they will either. With the right support, it means the PS360 will be able to sell well longer, but it's not going to change the overall direction.

I can see them shaving a few figures off of the wii sales, but nothing major.
Personally I think Natal will be a failure as it is just a slightly better eyetoy and with that comes all the problems and genre limits of the eyetoy.
Move may be decent with actual real-time tracking in space instead of gestures BUT the latency has to be

Why so pessimistic!

TBH I have no idea what either will do.

All I know right now is Microsoft is putting a lot of muscle behind Natal.

I agree very much with that. First I don't see them selling enough to justify a lot of third party support since the development cost are already very high on HD systems. The only solution would be to introduce them in a time perspective of minimum 3 years. The problem is that the wii successor will be out then and probably will have better technologies. I think sony and microsoft are doing quite a stupid mistake. They shoud have kept their technology for the next generation. Now they are going to need to have a more powerful hardware + probably a new technology even if they released one a year or two before...