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Sony starting to push against used games

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Jordahn said:
KungKras said:
Jordahn said:
KungKras said:
Barozi said:
KungKras said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
support your developers and publishers. the retailers will get paid either way.

Developers that makes gams that people get tired of and sell are not worth supporting.

People get tired of all games, so I guess no developer is worth supporting right ?

I can give you a long list of games that I haven't grown tired of despite playing them a lot, and I can give you an even longer list with games that I don't wanna sell even though I don't play them anymore.

GOOOD FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

Good for me indeed, I like having replayable games.

I currently have a library of over 300 games, but with that being said...

Marcus made a decent point.  You buy a game new from any developer/publishers so you support that developer/publishers including NINTENDO.  And then he called out your asinine response with another valid point according you YOUR logic.  And who are you to tell everyone which developers are worth and not worth supporting?  No one.  Just because Marcus made a valid point and it was not in favor of Nintendo doesn't mean you have to disagree.

When was Nintendo mentioned? And what do they have to do with anything?

"People get tired of all games, so I guess no developer is worth supporting right ?"

That was the decent point, right? Listen, if a developer (Any developer) makes a game, and it is good people won't get tired of it, just look at how many times you see games like Halo 3 or NSMBWii or MGS4 in used game shelves? I almost never see those games in the used game shelves, but there are other games that keep reappearing more often on used game shelves. What if game developers made a serious study about wich games are resold and wich games are kept instead of just bitching about used game sales? That would actually be good for customers since they would realize that they would simply have to add elements that makes the games more replayable. But I guess customer satisfaction is of no value to game developers these days.

If developers don't want their games resold, they should make games that people want to keep. The developers that realize this are worth supporting IMO, the ones whose games you don't grow tired of.  Growing used game sales is a natural symptom of many people growing tired with their games, the games should change, not the custoumers or business model of selling games.



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Jordahn said:
KungKras said:
Jordahn said:
I support the gaming industry so 95% of the time I buy my games new. The other 5% are specific circumstantial situations. If you're a true gamer, you'd buy your games new, too. And if a game is too expensive new and you don't "have to" have it now, just wait for a price drop. So anyone's move (including SONY's) to push against used games is not an issue with me and shouldn't be for anyone else.

So you're saying, that only true gamers bend over to the game companies and puts up with their bullshit?

If game companies don't want used game sales, they should start making games that people want to keep. Usually the games you see on the used game shelf are games that rely only on wow-factor in the first playthrough. Sadly, most games are like that, but that's the devs fault, not customers.

Selling stuff used is present in ALL businesses. The gaming industry isn't entitled to escaping from that. They are just coming up with excuses to dissmiss the fact that their games are losing appeal.

Didn't you just said...

"Developers that makes gams that people get tired of and sell are not worth supporting..."...?

Now, I think we can all agree that no publisher/developer is perfect.  And according to what I just quoted from you, we can conclude some companies are worth supporting.  And how do you support those companies.... BY BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS!!!  If you are truely so noble by not putting "up with their bullshit," then get out of gaming!  That solves that problem, and it helps solve the problem of making other gamers look bad.  And I never said anyone cannot buy or sell used games.  And you CANNOT tell me and the rest of the world which companies are worth supporting and which are not.  So any companies I support, I support them by buying new so they can continue making the games I think are worth supporting.  People should respect you for the companies you support so you should do the same for them.  

If you buy a product, you expect to be its full owner, it's the same thing with all products. If you own something, you can sell it at any time, because it's yours and you can do whatever you want with things that you own. Game companies fighting used game sales don't want people to own what they have bought, they want to force people into keeping the game that they have bought even if it has no value to them. Don't you see anything wrong with that?

   I buy games that I am exited about new too, because I want them to be in perfect condition. Some other games that I have heard are too short to be worth the new price tag I buy used on Ebay (because gamestop offer horrrible deals for used games). Games that I have been excited about and ended up disliking, I can always sell, because they are mine and I should be allowed to, so that perhaps some other gamer that don't think the game is worth its price tag but still want to check it out can buy it. So far, I don't dislike any of my games enough to be wanting to sell it, but do you really think robbing people of that freedom is right? If I didn't own my games, I would quit gaming. I guess I'm not hardcore enough to support such practices.



I LOVE ICELAND!

KungKras said:

   I buy games that I am exited about new too, because I want them to be in perfect condition. Some other games that I have heard are too short to be worth the new price tag I buy used on Ebay (because gamestop offer horrrible deals for used games). Games that I have been excited about and ended up disliking, I can always sell, because they are mine and I should be allowed to, so that perhaps some other gamer that don't think the game is worth its price tag but still want to check it out can buy it. So far, I don't dislike any of my games enough to be wanting to sell it, but do you really think robbing people of that freedom is right? If I didn't own my games, I would quit gaming. I guess I'm not hardcore enough to support such practices.

 

Unless of course you buy certain PC games, which you can't resell once you've activated the cd key. I know you're a huge Starcraft fan and don't see this as an issue, but if I buy Starcraft 2 and dislike it, I have zero recourse for getting my money back. I'll have my blizzard.net account or whatever and that's it. Same with anything on Steam. So why is it apparantly okay for PC games to do this while console games adhere to another standard?

Don't bring up Blizzard game quality because that's not the issue here. You said I should be able to sell games I don't like. There's a double standard I'm having trouble reconciling with you being a Blizzard/Starcraft fan and preaching for the resale of games.



Demon's Souls Official Thread  | Currently playing: Left 4 Dead 2, LittleBigPlanet 2, Magicka

This is an impressive move, it can help them or hurt them.



    
c0rd said:
Khuutra said:

Presumably when you buy a game you are effectively buying into support for it for as long as your copy exists. When you trade in a used game and it's bought by someone else, developers aren't supporting two copies, they're supporting the one copy they were already paid for.

This is the part everyone seems to miss. People talk as if used games are like piracy, a single copy duplicating into the hands of many, but the reality is it's only a single copy going around to the same group of people.


@Barozi: That isn't true. Generally the top selling games are the ones people keep, an easy example being Nintendo games or online multiplayer games like CoD (the arcade type, always fun in short bursts). It's the same with movies, people don't get tired of all of them. There are some worth keeping, otherwise people wouldn't bother buying DVD's, they would rent or find a cheaper option instead.

The problem with many videogames today is they are designed to be fully enjoyable once, and then disposable afterward. Generally people play them out for many hours straight, then once they beat the game, they have no need of playing it ever again. It's no wonder these games have so much trouble with used sales, they aren't worth keeping.

If developers want money for each person that plays their game (which seems to be the direction they're going in), they better sell them for a hell of a lot less than $60. Personally I'll be boycotting any game that employs this policy, so I hope Sony doesn't carry this onto any game I care about.

Wow, some intelligent people on this thread.    People are acting like buying used games is the equivalent of piracy.  You aren't going to have a game sold used and then all of a sudden 5 extra people are taxing the games online servers.  You have one owner at a time, and therefore one person on that game's servers at a time, with the company already being paid for the use of that game online by the original purchaser.  In fact, companies may make money off the purchase of used games in the form of DLC purchases.

I just find this recent attack ridiculous considering this gen many games (including new IP's) have been selling incredibly well, even though the used game market has grown incredibly, as well.  Maybe companies should worry more about their own content before blaming the purchasers of that content for low sales.
 



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ameratsu said:
KungKras said:

   I buy games that I am exited about new too, because I want them to be in perfect condition. Some other games that I have heard are too short to be worth the new price tag I buy used on Ebay (because gamestop offer horrrible deals for used games). Games that I have been excited about and ended up disliking, I can always sell, because they are mine and I should be allowed to, so that perhaps some other gamer that don't think the game is worth its price tag but still want to check it out can buy it. So far, I don't dislike any of my games enough to be wanting to sell it, but do you really think robbing people of that freedom is right? If I didn't own my games, I would quit gaming. I guess I'm not hardcore enough to support such practices.

 

Unless of course you buy certain PC games, which you can't resell once you've activated the cd key. I know you're a huge Starcraft fan and don't see this as an issue, but if I buy Starcraft 2 and dislike it, I have zero recourse for getting my money back. I'll have my blizzard.net account or whatever and that's it. Same with anything on Steam. So why is it apparantly okay for PC games to do this while console games adhere to another standard?

Don't bring up Blizzard game quality because that's not the issue here. You said I should be able to sell games I don't like. There's a double standard I'm having trouble reconciling with you being a Blizzard/Starcraft fan and preaching for the resale of games.

I don't like what Blizzard are doing with SC2 (No LAN, Bnet2.0 is more of a "platfrom" etc). It's not very Blizzard-like. I have been complaining about Blizzard a lot these latest years.

For me, SC2 is guaranteed to be the best, or second best game I've ever played, but to other people, not being able to truly own it is unfair.



I LOVE ICELAND!

KungKras said:
Jordahn said:
KungKras said:
Jordahn said:
I support the gaming industry so 95% of the time I buy my games new. The other 5% are specific circumstantial situations. If you're a true gamer, you'd buy your games new, too. And if a game is too expensive new and you don't "have to" have it now, just wait for a price drop. So anyone's move (including SONY's) to push against used games is not an issue with me and shouldn't be for anyone else.

So you're saying, that only true gamers bend over to the game companies and puts up with their bullshit?

If game companies don't want used game sales, they should start making games that people want to keep. Usually the games you see on the used game shelf are games that rely only on wow-factor in the first playthrough. Sadly, most games are like that, but that's the devs fault, not customers.

Selling stuff used is present in ALL businesses. The gaming industry isn't entitled to escaping from that. They are just coming up with excuses to dissmiss the fact that their games are losing appeal.

Didn't you just said...

"Developers that makes gams that people get tired of and sell are not worth supporting..."...?

Now, I think we can all agree that no publisher/developer is perfect.  And according to what I just quoted from you, we can conclude some companies are worth supporting.  And how do you support those companies.... BY BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS!!!  If you are truely so noble by not putting "up with their bullshit," then get out of gaming!  That solves that problem, and it helps solve the problem of making other gamers look bad.  And I never said anyone cannot buy or sell used games.  And you CANNOT tell me and the rest of the world which companies are worth supporting and which are not.  So any companies I support, I support them by buying new so they can continue making the games I think are worth supporting.  People should respect you for the companies you support so you should do the same for them.  

If you buy a product, you expect to be its full owner, it's the same thing with all products. If you own something, you can sell it at any time, because it's yours and you can do whatever you want with things that you own. Game companies fighting used game sales don't want people to own what they have bought, they want to force people into keeping the game that they have bought even if it has no value to them. Don't you see anything wrong with that?

   I buy games that I am exited about new too, because I want them to be in perfect condition. Some other games that I have heard are too short to be worth the new price tag I buy used on Ebay (because gamestop offer horrrible deals for used games). Games that I have been excited about and ended up disliking, I can always sell, because they are mine and I should be allowed to, so that perhaps some other gamer that don't think the game is worth its price tag but still want to check it out can buy it. So far, I don't dislike any of my games enough to be wanting to sell it, but do you really think robbing people of that freedom is right? If I didn't own my games, I would quit gaming. I guess I'm not hardcore enough to support such practices.

It's very simple.  If more people would buy new games, more developers/publishers would not feel the need to go to "extremes" to ensure their profitability to continue make games.  Blame the piraters and blame the used game buyers.  At least I'm doing my part.



Hackers are poor nerds who don't wash.

Jordahn said:
KungKras said:

If you buy a product, you expect to be its full owner, it's the same thing with all products. If you own something, you can sell it at any time, because it's yours and you can do whatever you want with things that you own. Game companies fighting used game sales don't want people to own what they have bought, they want to force people into keeping the game that they have bought even if it has no value to them. Don't you see anything wrong with that?

   I buy games that I am exited about new too, because I want them to be in perfect condition. Some other games that I have heard are too short to be worth the new price tag I buy used on Ebay (because gamestop offer horrrible deals for used games). Games that I have been excited about and ended up disliking, I can always sell, because they are mine and I should be allowed to, so that perhaps some other gamer that don't think the game is worth its price tag but still want to check it out can buy it. So far, I don't dislike any of my games enough to be wanting to sell it, but do you really think robbing people of that freedom is right? If I didn't own my games, I would quit gaming. I guess I'm not hardcore enough to support such practices.

It's very simple.  If more people would buy new games, more developers/publishers would not feel the need to go to "extremes" to ensure their profitability to continue make games.  Blame the piraters and blame the used game buyers.  At least I'm doing my part.

It's part of a consumer's rights to sell the goods that they have bought. A person who sells, buys, and ttrades in used games is simply practicing their consumer rights. Similarly, one practises one's consumer right in not buying stuff that attempts blatantly to impede the implementation of these rights, even if it's ust by obscuring some forms of content for those consumers.

I don't care what the justification is. Try to screw consumer, I will nont buy your games, and I will laugh while your company flounders and dies.



Khuutra said:
Jordahn said:
KungKras said:

If you buy a product, you expect to be its full owner, it's the same thing with all products. If you own something, you can sell it at any time, because it's yours and you can do whatever you want with things that you own. Game companies fighting used game sales don't want people to own what they have bought, they want to force people into keeping the game that they have bought even if it has no value to them. Don't you see anything wrong with that?

   I buy games that I am exited about new too, because I want them to be in perfect condition. Some other games that I have heard are too short to be worth the new price tag I buy used on Ebay (because gamestop offer horrrible deals for used games). Games that I have been excited about and ended up disliking, I can always sell, because they are mine and I should be allowed to, so that perhaps some other gamer that don't think the game is worth its price tag but still want to check it out can buy it. So far, I don't dislike any of my games enough to be wanting to sell it, but do you really think robbing people of that freedom is right? If I didn't own my games, I would quit gaming. I guess I'm not hardcore enough to support such practices.

It's very simple.  If more people would buy new games, more developers/publishers would not feel the need to go to "extremes" to ensure their profitability to continue make games.  Blame the piraters and blame the used game buyers.  At least I'm doing my part.

It's part of a consumer's rights to sell the goods that they have bought. A person who sells, buys, and ttrades in used games is simply practicing their consumer rights. Similarly, one practises one's consumer right in not buying stuff that attempts blatantly to impede the implementation of these rights, even if it's ust by obscuring some forms of content for those consumers.

I don't care what the justification is. Try to screw consumer, I will nont buy your games, and I will laugh while your company flounders and dies.

Like I said in a previous post: "I never said anyone cannot buy or sell used games."  But actions always have consequences.  The more used games we buy, the less companies profit to keep them in business to make more games.  The more we buy new games, the more these companies profit to stay in business to keep making these games.  A person's right to sell and buy used games is a secondary issue here when you look at the big picture.  You have the right alright.  And the company is getting screwed when the consumers enjoys their services and product when there is no compensation.  This didn't seem to be an issue, let's say, seven years ago.  But apparently, thing have become "unbalanced" enough to where the company is getting screwed, and they now have to take measures to help ensure that they stay profitable.  Just don't blame the companies and the consumers who are trying to keep an industry viable and afloat.  The reason why you are playing games is because of our support.



Hackers are poor nerds who don't wash.

I hope this doesn't become the norm in console gaming Ea did this with Spores and ubisoft with assassin's creed 2 on the Pc a dying gaming system. But it can be a make or break for Ea,Ubisoft and Sony it can work or it can collapse their company we'll just see.........



"We don't always hack sites but when we do, we prefer Sony"-Anonymous

http://www.cristgaming.com/pirate.swf