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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Sony starting to push against used games

Nick on 24 May 2010
vr6GOLFr32 said:
I don't mind them cracking down on used games, there's obviously a reason they're doing so.

I'm sure you know that reasons can be good or bad.  This one is as bad as it could possibly get.  Used markets exist for EVERYTHING (for a good reason).  It forces industries to try to make a product that you don't WANT to sell.  Would you buy a used movie (or rent one) if you had to pay 10 dollars to the publishers for the right to watch it?  I mean that did take away from them making a new sale.  Of course you would never agree to that, so why do you feel you should give the gaming industry a pass? 

Every single word in averyblund's post is truth.  Corporations are not your friends... ever.  



Smash Bros: 2363-5325-6342 

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SnesTea on 24 May 2010

Solution: Don't buy a PSP.



Jordahn on 24 May 2010
Khuutra said:
Jordahn said:
Khuutra said:

It's part of a consumer's rights to sell the goods that they have bought. A person who sells, buys, and ttrades in used games is simply practicing their consumer rights. Similarly, one practises one's consumer right in not buying stuff that attempts blatantly to impede the implementation of these rights, even if it's ust by obscuring some forms of content for those consumers.

I don't care what the justification is. Try to screw consumer, I will nont buy your games, and I will laugh while your company flounders and dies.

Like I said in a previous post: "I never said anyone cannot buy or sell used games."  But actions always have consequences.  The more used games we buy, the less companies profit to keep them in business to make more games.  The more we buy new games, the more these companies profit to stay in business to keep making these games.  A person's right to sell and buy used games is a secondary issue here when you look at the big picture.  You have the right alright.  And the company is getting screwed when the consumers enjoys their services and product when there is no compensation.  This didn't seem to be an issue, let's say, seven years ago.  But apparently, thing have become "unbalanced" enough to where the company is getting screwed, and they now have to take measures to help ensure that they stay profitable.  Just don't blame the companies and the consumers who are trying to keep an industry viable and afloat.  The reason why you are playing games is because of our support.

You know why Nintendo doesn't whine about the second-hand market?

And don't turn this into some "us vs. them" horse shit, either - the vast majority of my games are bought new because I prefer them as a consumer, but I do not stand in judgement of people who might not buy a game at all save where it's used. The second hand market has been important for as long as media has been consumable. Gaming is no different from any other industry in this.

And no, your consumer rights is the primary issue. Like I said:

If companies tried to discourage these rights through underhanded means, I hope their games bomb.

That's the end of my sentiment.

Now they aren't, but they will when it gets bad enough for them.  In fact, hardly any developer complained until it got bad enough.  You fight the battles as they became important enough for your given situation.  One reason Nintendo is on top of the world right now becuase they are PROFITABLE!  And they are profitable because more than enough people are buying their stuff NEW, not used.  Why do some of you throw out common sense in exchange for personal opinion?  Go figure.  NO one can disagree that when a company cannot support its product because it is not profitable, they have to either stop supporting that product or find some other means in promotoing that product.  So yes in the bigger picture, the more we buy and sell used games the more detrimental it is to the companies.  So it makes it harder and harder to supply us with the good we enjoy.



Hackers are poor nerds who don't wash.

nitekrawler1285 on 24 May 2010
Jordahn said:
Khuutra said:
Jordahn said:
Khuutra said:

It's part of a consumer's rights to sell the goods that they have bought. A person who sells, buys, and ttrades in used games is simply practicing their consumer rights. Similarly, one practises one's consumer right in not buying stuff that attempts blatantly to impede the implementation of these rights, even if it's ust by obscuring some forms of content for those consumers.

I don't care what the justification is. Try to screw consumer, I will nont buy your games, and I will laugh while your company flounders and dies.

Like I said in a previous post: "I never said anyone cannot buy or sell used games."  But actions always have consequences.  The more used games we buy, the less companies profit to keep them in business to make more games.  The more we buy new games, the more these companies profit to stay in business to keep making these games.  A person's right to sell and buy used games is a secondary issue here when you look at the big picture.  You have the right alright.  And the company is getting screwed when the consumers enjoys their services and product when there is no compensation.  This didn't seem to be an issue, let's say, seven years ago.  But apparently, thing have become "unbalanced" enough to where the company is getting screwed, and they now have to take measures to help ensure that they stay profitable.  Just don't blame the companies and the consumers who are trying to keep an industry viable and afloat.  The reason why you are playing games is because of our support.

You know why Nintendo doesn't whine about the second-hand market?

And don't turn this into some "us vs. them" horse shit, either - the vast majority of my games are bought new because I prefer them as a consumer, but I do not stand in judgement of people who might not buy a game at all save where it's used. The second hand market has been important for as long as media has been consumable. Gaming is no different from any other industry in this.

And no, your consumer rights is the primary issue. Like I said:

If companies tried to discourage these rights through underhanded means, I hope their games bomb.

That's the end of my sentiment.

Now they aren't, but they will when it gets bad enough for them.  In fact, hardly any developer complained until it got bad enough.  You fight the battles as they became important enough for your given situation.  One reason Nintendo is on top of the world right now becuase they are PROFITABLE!  And they are profitable because more than enough people are buying their stuff NEW, not used.  Why do some of you throw out common sense in exchange for personal opinion?  Go figure.  NO one can disagree that when a company cannot support its product because it is not profitable, they have to either stop supporting that product or find some other means in promotoing that product.  So yes in the bigger picture, the more we buy and sell used games the more detrimental it is to the companies.  So it makes it harder and harder to supply us with the good we enjoy.

It is never the consumers fault that companies aren't profitable.  If these businesses can't meet market demand and be profitable maybe they shouldn't be in business. Gaming revenue has been fine lately.  Maybe these companies need to better manage their resources. Or better yet just give the customer an experience they don't mind shelling out 60$ for.  

Even though I prefer to buy games used because my money isn't plentiful I will buy The Last Guardian day one at $60 because I was so well satisfied by their product before that I believe whatever they give me will be worthy and I wouldn't want to have to wait to experience it. I don't trust most developers or publishers like that because they haven't given me reason as of late. 



Jordahn on 24 May 2010
nitekrawler1285 said:
Jordahn said:
Khuutra said:
Jordahn said:
Khuutra said:

It's part of a consumer's rights to sell the goods that they have bought. A person who sells, buys, and ttrades in used games is simply practicing their consumer rights. Similarly, one practises one's consumer right in not buying stuff that attempts blatantly to impede the implementation of these rights, even if it's ust by obscuring some forms of content for those consumers.

I don't care what the justification is. Try to screw consumer, I will nont buy your games, and I will laugh while your company flounders and dies.

Like I said in a previous post: "I never said anyone cannot buy or sell used games."  But actions always have consequences.  The more used games we buy, the less companies profit to keep them in business to make more games.  The more we buy new games, the more these companies profit to stay in business to keep making these games.  A person's right to sell and buy used games is a secondary issue here when you look at the big picture.  You have the right alright.  And the company is getting screwed when the consumers enjoys their services and product when there is no compensation.  This didn't seem to be an issue, let's say, seven years ago.  But apparently, thing have become "unbalanced" enough to where the company is getting screwed, and they now have to take measures to help ensure that they stay profitable.  Just don't blame the companies and the consumers who are trying to keep an industry viable and afloat.  The reason why you are playing games is because of our support.

You know why Nintendo doesn't whine about the second-hand market?

And don't turn this into some "us vs. them" horse shit, either - the vast majority of my games are bought new because I prefer them as a consumer, but I do not stand in judgement of people who might not buy a game at all save where it's used. The second hand market has been important for as long as media has been consumable. Gaming is no different from any other industry in this.

And no, your consumer rights is the primary issue. Like I said:

If companies tried to discourage these rights through underhanded means, I hope their games bomb.

That's the end of my sentiment.

Now they aren't, but they will when it gets bad enough for them.  In fact, hardly any developer complained until it got bad enough.  You fight the battles as they became important enough for your given situation.  One reason Nintendo is on top of the world right now becuase they are PROFITABLE!  And they are profitable because more than enough people are buying their stuff NEW, not used.  Why do some of you throw out common sense in exchange for personal opinion?  Go figure.  NO one can disagree that when a company cannot support its product because it is not profitable, they have to either stop supporting that product or find some other means in promotoing that product.  So yes in the bigger picture, the more we buy and sell used games the more detrimental it is to the companies.  So it makes it harder and harder to supply us with the good we enjoy.

It is never the consumers fault that companies aren't profitable.  If these businesses can't meet market demand and be profitable maybe they shouldn't be in business. Gaming revenue has been fine lately.  Maybe these companies need to better manage their resources. Or better yet just give the customer an experience they don't mind shelling out 60$ for.  

Even though I prefer to buy games used because my money isn't plentiful I will buy The Last Guardian day one at $60 because I was so well satisfied by their product before that I believe whatever they give me will be worthy and I wouldn't want to have to wait to experience it. I don't trust most developers or publishers like that because they haven't given me reason as of late. 

I will partially agree that sometimes it isn't the consumers fault that companies are not profitable because companies do not always make the right decisions.  I hope everyone doesn't think that I think it's entirerly on the consumer because it's not.  And let me let say that I do symathize with all of you who think that games are overpriced.  I should have disclaimed that the last game I bought new at full price was inFAMOUS which was released this time last year.  Every games I've bought since then was either at a permanent price reduction or a game sale such as Gamestop's Gameday sale.  We all buy games at a "cheaper" price to save money.  I too want to send a message to the game publishers/bevelopers but still enabling them to keep making games.



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Khuutra on 24 May 2010
Jordahn said:
Khuutra said:

You know why Nintendo doesn't whine about the second-hand market?

And don't turn this into some "us vs. them" horse shit, either - the vast majority of my games are bought new because I prefer them as a consumer, but I do not stand in judgement of people who might not buy a game at all save where it's used. The second hand market has been important for as long as media has been consumable. Gaming is no different from any other industry in this.

And no, your consumer rights is the primary issue. Like I said:

If companies tried to discourage these rights through underhanded means, I hope their games bomb.

That's the end of my sentiment.

Now they aren't, but they will when it gets bad enough for them.  In fact, hardly any developer complained until it got bad enough.  You fight the battles as they became important enough for your given situation.  One reason Nintendo is on top of the world right now becuase they are PROFITABLE!  And they are profitable because more than enough people are buying their stuff NEW, not used.  Why do some of you throw out common sense in exchange for personal opinion?  Go figure.  NO one can disagree that when a company cannot support its product because it is not profitable, they have to either stop supporting that product or find some other means in promotoing that product.  So yes in the bigger picture, the more we buy and sell used games the more detrimental it is to the companies.  So it makes it harder and harder to supply us with the good we enjoy.

Hardly any developer complained when they were using smart business practices that allowed them to make money even with the second-hand market. Now that they lose money, they scramble in the dirt for any scrap to hold onto, any person to cast blame on, any regulation that might increase profit margins without the pain and effort of actually changing their business model.

All games are initially bought new, that's a useless point.

You are full of it. Used games do not harm the industry, lack of caring does. They only support copies that are bought new - never do they have to support tat copy more than once, they just support it for the life of that single copy.

In the bigger picture, you are letting your misplaced loyalty toward companies who would turn your wallet inside out and spank you with it come before your more sensible loyalty to your own finances and your own rights as a consumer.

ALL games are initially bought new. If the used market beats a game to death, it's the games' fault. Consumers cannot be blamed for not supporting a product that they do not deem worth supporting, so sorry. That's on the companies, not on me.



Smidlee on 24 May 2010
Khuutra said:

You know why Nintendo doesn't whine about the second-hand market?

Yeah, sure do. Nintendo continues to used the same old characters over and over and over again. Almost all of them go back to their first system. Ever wonder why they slap Mario is every game they can?  Nintendo doesn't take much risk with games like Infamous. There is always more risk in starting something new which is why we have 14 Final Fantasy series (including X-2). Will there ever be a final Final Fantasy?



Khuutra on 24 May 2010
Smidlee said:
Khuutra said:
 

You know why Nintendo doesn't whine about the second-hand market?

Yeah, sure do. Nintendo continues to used the same old characters over and over and over again. Almost all of them go back to their first system. Ever wonder why they slap Mario is every game they can?  Nintendo doesn't take much risk with games like Infamous. There is always more risk in starting something new which is why we have 14 Final Fantasy series (including X-2). Will there ever be a final Final Fantasy?

Gross oversimplification taken to an art form, to the degree that you're suggesting there's no possibility of sustained IPs going stale (this is not the case).

Nintendo doesn't whine about the second-hand market because attacking te second-hand market wouldn't fix any problems the company has.



Smidlee on 24 May 2010

So far it worked for Nintendo. Don't underestimate the selling power of Mario. Nintendo surely hasn't. The same old characters over and over again.



Khuutra on 24 May 2010
Smidlee said:

So far it worked for Nintendo. Don't underestimate the selling power of Mario. Nintendo surely hasn't. The same old characters over and over again.

You're missing my point. Recycling of IPs as noting to do wit the used games market.