To the bolded: I dont get why Xbox fans tend to exaggerate everyting. PS3 is already in many aspects a success for Sony. Mainly due Bluray which will pay of the next two decades atleast since they get money for every Bluray sold no matter if movie or Game. 

To bolded part two:

No it doesnt ? What doesnt ? Somehow the bolded answer dont fit properly.

First part of 2008 wasnt too good for Xbox since PS3 pricecut wasnt that long ago. 

Hopefully you will be here in 8 Months. I always knew the PS3 is the much more desired product. And USA cant make up for the rest of the world especially because PS3 isnt in bad shape in USA. Even though Japan might get 3DS I dont think this will influence the PS3 much since they are competing on different markets. PS3 reached 5 Million in 3 years and will reach 10 Million LTD. While Xbox will get at best 250k-500k more. That means that Japan alone will close current gap. And since PS3 makes decent sales in US and europe makes up for the difference and adds even some more to that. I cant see this changing soon.

Xbox is seen as old console. PS3 is seen as the better investment due to Bluray and somehow it just looks fresher since the price was so high and mass market couldnt afford it. PS3 is seen as the more valueable product (which it actually is) Xbox cant win the fight when the price is comparable.

I admit Slim Xbox could increase the sales in Europe and NA. And Natal, well all I know is that it isnt for the core market its there to get a piece of Nintendos cake. PS3s Move will cater to core market too. And Natal well lets see what they show off during E3. Casual market= Nintendo is god and Natal will be crushed by Nintendo since Microsoft just hasnt the right image and no nintendo software. 

I believe you that you wont ever admit that the PS3 is a success even after PS3 sold 80 Million Units you will still be in denial. PS3 made losses yes. And probably it will end with a minus but PS3 made Bluray win and without it we would have now HD DVD Player since they were cheaper then Bluray. Also PSN. Microsoft started with Live last gen so they had more experiences with an Online Platform but PSN is just the first step for Sony. Sony sees PSN probably as a Platform for Selling their products directly to customer and not just games but Movies and Music also and probably we will see soon an Expanded PSN which will be integrated in Sony TVs and Phones and Bluray Player. The difference is since Sony is a Music and Movie Company also they make much more profit from it. Cell was costly but its mayor feature for Sony are is security features if you look at the PS3 it fits perfectly in the whole Sony Concept and it helped creating new structures and pushing Sony technologys. Now with 3d they will do it again. Even if Sony will loose 1-2 Billion on the very end with the PS3 it still will be a mayor success.

BTW Companys calculate with every situation. Sony new they are going to make huge losses in the beginnig. Which would be even worse when they would have sold more consoles on the beginning. But Sony did it despite that because the PS3 was more to Sony then just a regular Console. Same thing goes for MS they want to spread their Standards too with Xbox360. For Nintendo the PS3 would ahve been a mayor disaster and would have probably killed them, but for Sony it is even today partially a success. And will be even more so in the future. 

Sony themself said console buisness is a marathon. I said it right from the start that Sonys plans will pay off. japanese companies plan decades into the future unlike western companies which have mostly 3-5 year plans.The more time passes by the more Sonys plans start to work. Ofcourse it wasnt perfect. But what would have happened in the best case. Sony would have lost even more money since they made upto 200 Dollar losses per console in the beginnig. Its not perfect but I am absolutly sure in the long run Sonys Plan will pay off. 

And people still care who wins mainly due to the fact that MS Fans were so cocky in the first years of the gen. Now they get a piece of humble pie. I know Sony fans are not better but they already got their pie now its Microsofts turn. Yes Xbox is a decent success but not able to kill of Sony even though they got a Million Chances. Nintendo entered the buisness and went from zero to the top where the most succesful Videogame Company of all time and earned a fortune. Sony cam BAM they destroyed the competition went from zero to top and earned a fortune. Microsoft came BAM they were destroyed from the competition and barely won against a weak Nintendo+lost a fortune. MS came again lost on the beginnig money but did somewhat decent helped a little to kill PC gaming. And sold more then a 599 Dollar PS3. Were partially crushed by Nintendo and now it looks like they cant defend their second place and will slip to third place. 

After this christmas everything is said and done. If MS wont have the upper hand its definetly over. See what gets on my nervs is that everything takes so long people just forget what they said. Oh those pre Slim days everything what happened since then was extremly unexpected  by 99% of the people, noone believed it since Xbox won definetly.

This christmas is the last battle. And Sony and MS will pull out their last weapons. This christmas will determin who will be second Place. 

Ok, lets see, by march 2011 PS3 will complete 4 years and 4 months on the market. If some guy would have told us, on November 11, 2006 (PS3 launch), that the PS3 would take that long to become the second most sold console of its gen, not even the first, we would have called him crazy and delusional. PS3 is great, yes, but the PS brand is not what it used to be anymore, we can't deny it.  BTW, i don't think PS3 will surpass 360 by that time.

Problem with this.

1. Halo isn't a system seller. Everyone going to purchase future Halo games already owns a 360. Gears and Fable will sell more systems than Halo, even though they won't sell very many.

2. FFVXIII is the answer to the disappointment that FFXIII became when people realized it was missing a lot of key elements that made the old FF games so great. It'll sell as many systems as Gears or Fable will.

3. FFXIV. A current gen MMORPG on consoles. MMO seekers will buy the PS3 just to play. It should sell slightly more consoles than VXIII should.

4. Socom 4. Confrontation was a flop because it didn't really resemble the old Ps2 Socom games which had a LARGE userbase. Very few of the SOCOM fans from PS2 bought Confrontation. Socom 4 is their answer, and the PERFECT reason for them to purchase a PS3 if they haven't already. It should sell as many consoles as FFXIV.

5. Twisted Metal PS3. There are millions of Twisted Metal fans that don't own a PS3. Most of them were more casual gamers and probably still own/play their PS2. Twisted Metal is considered a heavy hitter being such a famed franchise. It should sell more consoles than any other game I've discussed above.

I don't, however, agree with Modnation Racers or Agent as being big console sellers. Modnation might sell some consoles to the curious, but unless it develops a huge userbase and grows some 'legs', I don't see it selling enough consoles to give the PS3 more than a 5% bump in HW sales for the first month after Modnations release.

Jesus christ

1. Never every count out the hype machine that Microsoft can pull. No it won't push as many units as Halo 3 but my god they will force you. Don't be suprised if the first slim will be a Halo Reach bundle. Halo 3 limited Edition console sold pretty well.

2. Every time a FF plumbs the crowd tells you that the next FF will be as huge as FF VII. Face it, the milked the brand too much. It will sell but it will not move many consoles.

3. People will nmot buy a whole console to play MMORPG. May sell some unit i Japan but no big mover outside.

4. SOCOM is not a system mover, end of that. Same crap has been pulled on many PS3 titles. Face it, the brand has to be much bigger than SOCOM to move units. Don't believe Sony will push much marketing on it either, depends on Move.

5. Come ON! Twisted Metal? Bringing an old grand brand to life never creats huge sales. The brand has been dead to long, the game is to shallow to have any lusting fanbase that will trow out 300-350 dollars just to play that game.

People are putting to much trust on games to push systems. The massive hype around Little Big Planet did not help much, and despite that you belive that Modnation to move some units?

Fits i do not think that we will see a new FF game outside japan in 2010. Do not count on a Twisted Metal game in 2010 either.

The only huge brand that could push some units today, without loads of marketing, would be GT 5. Unless someone drops a huge bomb like Diablo 3 goes console exclusive I do not belive that any of the old series can move any huge amount of consoles, except GT5. 

Never the less, the intro of slim + natal + pricecut (yes all of them will happen) will give MS a push just like they got in 2008 and Sony got in 2009. 360 will sell more in 2010 than in 2009, quote me on that. I predict that the gap will not go under 3.5 any time this year.

3. Why would they do that, when it's also coming out for the PC?

I'm not going to bother arguing anything else, because it's all down to opinion, but MMO seekers aren't going to go buy PS3s, when they can play the game on their PCs.

Define success, please

For me? Well Wii NDS and PS2 are more recent samples.

Any thing that ends up in red numbers can never be counted as an success. A company that between one product lifecykel losses the place as the market leader to become last in the industry can't be happy.

Sure Sony did calculate some losses but 4 years in and still red numbers? If they knew that in before launching the PS3 they would have release a different product.

Yes it helped the BluRay but even with the share that Sony gets from the BD group (they are not alone) it won't compare to the money they have lost in those four years. You should read the case study in Harvard Business Review called "Sony Playstation 3: Game Over?"

http://hbr.org/product/sony-playstation-3-game-over/an/508076-PDF-ENG 

The truth is that Sony ran over the competition in last gen. This time they went all in with the most expensive console and ran in to much harder competition than expected. The machine has been heavely slimed down to cut cost and the same time the had to slash prices twice when they where falling behind. Numerous times Sony has gone public and claimed that break even was near so do not say that they have calculated to still lossing money.

By tat I do not say that 360 is a success. None of them are, both have to match each other every year with price cuts and so on while Wii reaps the money. There is only one success story when the last word is writen this gen and it spells Wii, it is as simples as that.

Since the PS3 is finally profitable, I don't see Sony cutting price in the near future. But I do see MS cutting the 360's price.

Maybe Blu Ray will pay off eventually, however they have reported more in losses from their Blu Ray fabrication where they hold the majority of their patents and overall market capacity than they have in profits. Infact they have only started to turn a profit in this area.

Well it shows that the Xbox 360 has the potential to sell a lot more in the 2nd half of the year than during the first half.

I've been here since 2007 so I have seen the highs and lows. This is why I don't take any prediction of PS3 supremacy at all that seriously because I've heard it before many many times. Yet still I have to say that you're completely wrong about the PS3 in America. If the Xbox 360 can sell more consoles with fewer features internally and charging for the internet then it must have a greater value proposition. I personally don't see Japan being that important anymore especially with a new generation of handhelds to distract them and the continued decline of home consoles in that region. As for Europe it really does depend on how good Natal is and whether they can build up good value around that or if Sony's natural brand advantage in that region will reign supreme.

This is just speculation really. However the major advantage the PS3 has is the fact its called Playstation, not Blu Ray.

The point of Natal is that its unlike the Move or Wiimote so it can capture market share by approaching a different market to the ones that Nintendo and Sony are after. Its more than a gaming interface its also a service delivery platform and it works well with Microsofts various TV and Netflix style partnerships worldwide on top of their new gaming opportunities.

I will never admit the PS3 is a success, and probably not even if they sold 80M consoles. They turned a profitable winning platform into a losing platform, they took more in losses than the original Xbox 1 and they gave two competitors a leg up in the console arena so they will never again experience the same monopolistic power they had with the PS1 and PS2.

PSN and their service delivery has a lot of competition. Not only is there Live, but theres also the Apple delivery network, the developing android network and quite frankly Sony has never done well with proprietary internal formats so it remains to be seen whether they can indeed pull it off. Other TV manufacturers control the majority of the LCD TV market and they are fast developing comparable services and given Sonys lethargic pace here its hard to see them truely dominating in this arena.

Nintendo is a Japanese company too. However their plan worked from day one and they've made as much profit as Sony has lost this generation or thereabouts. Microsoft is also another company which plans years in advance, I don't see where Sony has a monopoly on forward thinking and smart business decisions. Theres nothing which says that Nintendo cannot roll out a comparable network to PSN on day one of the next generation whether thats in house or taking advantage of a third parties network.

MS fans were so cocky huh? Im sorry but I cannot share your perspective personally. See, I bought a PS3 first at launch and I was revolted by the people who claimed to be fans. I am still disapointed that almost all good work done by developers is attributed to the machine rather than the developers by these same people who claim to be fans and yet they completely ignore how well they worked with weaker hardware relative to the competition in the last generation. This is the reason why I got an Xbox 360 about a year and a half after I bought my PS3.

In any case I see no reason why theres any crow to be eaten or humble pie consumed. The Xbox 360 will double the sales of the Xbox 1, it will break even within the next couple of years and theres always the fact that Nintendo will maintain that first place position. Furthermore the time the Xbox 360 was in the lead which bested all projections from the start of the generation by everybody has left Xbox 360 fans prepared for the eventual overtaking but happy that its taken this long to happen.

Btw Nintendo is the most successful videogame company of all times. It would pay not to forget the 100M+ DS, 100M+ GB range and the fact that they have 20* or more the profit in the industry than Sony whilst maintaining dozens of places in the top sales of all time for their first party software.

I don't have the time or the energy to deal with all that shit... I can't believe some people are willing to debate like that

lol soon or maybe already sony will start making money on the ps3 aswell. then the 360 fans wil have nothing to hate on anymore. its over, 360's last.