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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Another Look At Piracy

it is not just crap games that get pirated.

look at some the the high profile Nintendo and 360 games.

By your logic only crap gets pirated.

I always knew AVATAR was a crap movie. In Australia about 50,000copies a day were downloaded for blu ray. I don't understand why considering the BluRay itself is only $24dollars. Most other BluRays here are 30-50 dollars each.



 

 

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Lord N said:
Akvod said:
 

You can't "take" a digital copy of a game.

Yes you can. IP is the right to exclusively produce or reproduce a software, music, etc. You have no right, the people who put it up online have no right. Lenders have a right, because they got permission from the creators. Second hand sales have a right, because while they have no right to reproduce the product, they can do as they please with their copy.

The laws and standards regarding intellectual and physical property are very different for a reason. When you download a game without paying for it, you haven't taken anything away, you've just made a copy. The copyright holder still has everything he had before the download took place. If you go into a store and take a game or CD  or DVD without paying for it, then yeah, you've taken something away; however, all you've taken is a round, plastic disc. The copyright holder still has all of the rights to distribute, reproduce, etc.

 

 

 

But you have taken something away. Their right to produce the product exclusively.

The whole fucking point is there. You can never call "dibs" on a idea. I believe ideas are simply discovered, not created. But we have created IP in order to make a more productive society, and because we believe that the "discoverer" should be allowed to profit from his effort.



Ail said:
vlad321 said:
Ail said:
 

sorry but a 50ms better ping isn't going to change a game of Starcraft at all...........

Heck, most RTS games transmit user interaction at 10 to 4 per second...

So now explain me how your 8ms ping make thing any better when the game doesn't interpret more than 4 to 10 user interactions per second anyway...

zYou obviosuly don't know shit about gaming then, because 50ms is the difference between making a successful amazing micro and getting your units killed. Also alright, 8-10 user interactoins a minute, that's still 10-13 ping, most definitely not 50, or worse, 100.

k I'm going to use simpler words because obviously you didn't understand the last explaination...

 

The most often any RTS game checks for users interactions is 10 times per second, most actually check for it only 4 times per second..

What this means is when you do your interaction, depending on the game, between 100 or 250 ms will pass before the game decides to process it... ( because the game is busy managing all your units and shits in btw, the mechanics of a RTS are different from those of a FPS).

 

So whether your command takes 8 ms to reach the server or whether it takes 100 ms, is exactly the same in term of gameplay, there is no difference at all..........

 

PS : The best korean SC players micro at the rate of around 210-240 interactions/minute, that's about 1 interaction every 270 ms in average..........

 

 

Maybe I should make this simpler for you too because you really seem lost here.

If you clock every time at the 0ms check, then you would notice the 100ms lag. However that is highly imporbable so fi you click at say, the 80ms mark, and you have a ping of 10, your move is registered at that 100ms mark anyhow. If you have above 20 ping, you feel all 120ms after that because the command is moved to the next check. If you hit the button at 50ms and you have over 50 ping, as you most certainly would if you are going over Bnet, that means you'd feel the 150ms lag.

IN summation, you fail yet again. Lower pings improve gameplay even if the game has such checks every 100ms.

P.S. It's not about how fast you click, but about how fast your actions need to have effects, and with microing it needs to be immidiate. Mioght as well say ping doesn't matter at all for FPS cause the players only shoot about 20 times a minute. I'm sorry, but that's just not how it works.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Piracy sucks is bad for the gaming industry

BTW, I find it interesting how the iPhone is very pirated, and it still managed to surpass the PSP.



 Been away for a bit, but sneaking back in.

Gaming on: PS4, PC, 3DS. Got a Switch! Mainly to play Smash

mysticwolf said:

Piracy sucks is bad for the gaming industry

BTW, I find it interesting how the iPhone is very pirated, and it still managed to surpass the PSP.

Actually the Dutch government said that it is utterly false. The US government's study got the same results. In fact if you readboth, piracy is better for the economy overall.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

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Piracy can be good for the consumer, if only to restrain price increases from content providers whether they are movie studios, music publishers or game companies because they know that if they increase the price too much the consumer has other alternatives to get the content.

Anyhow I see nothing in most of the above which is relevant to the original statement which is a few pirates download a heap of content and the only relevant statistic is the % of people pirating and not the absolute quantities of pirated content.



Tease.

To the original post:

That is actually very interesting, and it actually makes a lot of sense if you think about it. Pirates will just pirate everything, whether they need it or not. Some may even pirate the same thing multiple times.

Couple this information with what the US and Netherlands found out some months ago, and it seems that piracy has almost no downsides, while it may have a bunch of upsides. Making it beneficial overall.



Akvod said:
GlingGling said:
Akvod said:

 

You can't "take" a digital copy of a game. You can experience a game without paying for it. Don't forget these professionals get payed salary and maybe have stock options or bonuses based on how well a game sells. The main thing piracy directly affects in the video game industry is job security, and even that is a loose relationship. I would argue in capitalist societies that companies do have an obligation to produce attractive products at reasonable prices. Equally, any economy relies the movement of goods, the use of services, and the transfer of money: people are obligated to buy products. Overpricing and lack of value hinder a healthy relationship between producer and consumer. If you give a person a reason to want something they cannot obtain conveniently, they'll think of another way of getting that something. 

I'll give you a good example: before Netflix and popular streaming services I used to watch all of my television and movies from torrented downloads. Torrents were simply the most convenient way possible to get what I wanted when I wanted it. Netflix and other streaming services have actually made it immensely more convenient and they are either free (with reasonable ads) or reasonably priced. The formula: attractive product, reasonable prices, added value. 

You can't "take" a digital copy of a game.

Yes you can. IP is the right to exclusively produce or reproduce a software, music, etc. You have no right, the people who put it up online have no right. Lenders have a right, because they got permission from the creators. Second hand sales have a right, because while they have no right to reproduce the product, they can do as they please with their copy.

Don't forget these professionals get payed salary and maybe have stock options or bonuses based on how well a game sells.

So?

I would argue in capitalist societies that companies do have an obligation to produce attractive products at reasonable prices.

No in a capitalist society, you have choices. If there is a crappy product, that means that you choose the better product, and the crappy company fails. It's fucking ironic that people are saying "Man, this game fucking blows. Therefore, I shall take it". If the game blows, then don't fucking pirate it. It blows right?

 

Equally, any economy relies the movement of goods, the use of services, and the transfer of money: people are obligated to buy products.

There are other things an economy relies on, but the main thing is the establishment of property rights. Civil government is needed to enforce this.

Overpricing and lack of value hinder a healthy relationship between producer and consumer. If you give a person a reason to want something they cannot obtain conveniently, they'll think of another way of getting that something.

There is no such thing as "overpricing". There is only unprofitble, and price fixing/oligopolies/monopolies. If the price is above the equilibrium level, it will naturally fall. If it is below, it will rise. If the price is too high, then don't buy it. This is my point in my last point. This sense of entitlement. I think that diamonds are overpriced. For me personally at least. I have no interest in those fucking glittery rocks. But my mom doesn't. She loves that shit, and she's willing to pay for it. I'm at the very bottom of the Marginal Benefit (I get very little utitlity from the diamond), and my mother is at the center or above of that curve. The level of a price and the true value of the product varies from each person. There can be no overpricing.

I'll give you a good example: before Netflix and popular streaming services I used to watch all of my television and movies from torrented downloads. Torrents were simply the most convenient way possible to get what I wanted when I wanted it.

You were on the bottom half of the marginal benefit curve. Yet, you got to enjoy the fruits of the movie makers without having to pay for it, because you got it for free.

Netflix and other streaming services have actually made it immensely more convenient and they are either free (with reasonable ads) or reasonably priced.

There was a theoretical "price" of torrenting. That price can be measured by the opportunity cost of torrenting (risk of getting caught, hard drive space, the time it takes to download a movie, the bad quality, etc).

The price of the Netflix was cheaper, you went for that one.

 

 

... so your point is that you simply ignore property rights for your own benefit.

 

You make a lot of sound arguments. And you made an accurate assumption at the end. When it comes to digital material I've always gone for the most convenient option. These days I almost never have to obtain digital property illegally.

Bringing capitalism into the picture complicates things: the definitions of capitalism aren't widely agreed upon, nor is there any guarantee our understandings match. Though, your statements make as much sense to me as my statements.

One thing I will always feel entitled to is not getting ripped off. It's only natural to want value for money.

As for having choices and knowing if things blow or not, like I've said it's not always obvious if something blows or not. Piracy is an option in deducing the blow factor. Like someone else said though, even if I find out something doesn't blow if I already have it there is a pretty low chance I'll get around to buying it (though I've done it several times).

For the record I've never obtained physical property illegally. Stealing a DVD from a store resonates strongly as illegal. But, what is the difference between borrowing that DVD from a friend and making a copy of that DVD? They accomplish the same thing, we both experienced the information on the DVD and only one person paid for it. It's hard to make myself believe that something physical and some digital are the same: conceptually they aren't the same. I can't try to say digital copyright law is wrong or find some way of working around it or invalidating it. I can say it doesn't resonate as appropriate. 

You've really got me thinking about the actual definition of digital material and why I don't feel the same kind of guilt or barriers involved with physical theft. It's honestly something I'll have to give a lot of thought to. I know I'm not the only one to feel this way. Digital piracy simply doesn't bother a lot of people. I can't label it as right or wrong. Blindly following copyright law isn't the answer either.



vlad321 said:
Final-Fan said:
Now here's where I have to call bullshit.  Earlier you gave examples of games that were more than worth the money:  "I spent $80 for D2 LoD, and I spent hundreds of hours on it, many many hundreds. $70 for Starcraft and Warcraft 2 and 3 and I spent hundreds of hours out of them. UT2004 set me back only $50.Don't even get me started on the value of Civ 4.  FInally, while I have spent around $750 on WoW, I have 250 days of /played. That's 6,000 hours.

"Why should I pay $60 for MW2 which is a re-tread of a game, and is utter shit when it comes to features? Same goes for jsut about any shooter that has come out since 2005, except for Metro 2033 which had some amazing new features, and Portal."

But now I'm supposed to believe that SC2 isn't going to measure up?  If you spend hundreds and hundreds of hours on a game (a precedent set by SC1), then you are the biggest fucking crybaby liar in the world if you are seriously going to try to convince me that you can't put up $60 for it.  LAN or no LAN, playtime tells the tale. 

And in any case, where do you get off being "disappointed" by low piracy levels EVER? 

I will admit, D2 LoD, I spent playing on Bnet. However SC I spent far far longer playing on LAN than I did on Bnet, and Warcraft 3 was 50/50 solely because I wasn't geographically close to the people I played with . Remove LAN from SC2, and those hundreds of hours can be cut drastically, making it not worth it. That is even more true considering I now have a laptop to carry around for SC2 and not a desktop, making LAN even more viable than before.

I'd be disappointed because that means consumers decided to get a shaft up their ass instead of sticking a shaft up a developer's ass to put them in their place.

OK, that's a more reasonable argument.  But I strongly suspect that when LAN is unavailable, SC's siren call will lead you straight to Bnet instead of you just not playing MP at all. 

As for your second point, BULLSHIT.  You put them in their place by refusing to buy overpriced or under-quality product.  Not "refusing to buy, followed by piracy". 



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Slimebeast said:
I pirate, but I don't give dishonest arguments for it. Like the "Try first" argument, it's just a lie or a self-deception to justify your dirty acts. It simply is very awkward to download and install a game and then later pay $30 or $40 for it. Why would anyone do that? Human psychology don't work like that. I know some would do it from time to time, if you by chance stumbled upon a cheap copy or a sale of a game you really love, but it's not something you'd do on a regular basis.

I pirate because I can. It saves money and has no legal or other negative consequences. That's the true reason for everyone who pirate.

So do we really want game sales to depend on the good will of overly-critical, spoiled people like Vlad?




I do it all the time, if I think the game is good, I'd buy it. Apparently I'm not human, which explains a lot.