WoW gun lore:

Lore

Firearms are a relatively new dwarven invention. Despite the dangers of dealing with volatile explosives, dwarves are fascinated by the possibilities. Dwarven gunmakers constantly tinker with the guns they craft, trying out new designs and upgrades, naming and decorating their weapons.^{WRPG 131}

Sorry bro, that's bullshit. I'm not one to set around and talk about "owning" people, and I certainly don't believe I "owned" you, but yes, if there was an argument, it's over. You've attacked me for no reason after I pointed out your factual and obvious mistake. You said there were no guns in WoW, and then flamed me when I pointed out that you were mistaken. That's so rude. You want me to post some screens? Where do you think the name Zenfoldor comes from. World of Warcraft. I've played the game well over 200 days on my main character alone, I know what a blunderbuss is, and I know the references in the game, complete with "boomsticks."

To even further the evidence, Guns in WoW are abundant, and they are NOT reskins of bows. In fact, you actually have to train in "guns" to increase your weapon skill. I've seen a lot of DKP spent on guns, and I've seen a billion PVP matches won by guns in the game, a large number of the NPCs brandish guns, and so do some bosses.

Here is a photo of a "reskinned bow"

I can post picture after picture after picture of WoW gun skins, and it is a FACT that WoW not only contains guns, but specifically incorporates them into gameplay for a number of classes. There are some 80 toons that have nearly never used anything but a gun and a pet, and I bet they would beg to differ with your assertion that guns aren't important(or that they don't exist) in World of Warcraft.

Here is the wikipedia WoW gun page.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Gun

Now, if what you meant to imply, is that the focus of WoW is not "guns" like say the focus of many other games nowadays, then you would have been right. WoW is a MMO, and guns are only one class of many available weapon. However, to imply that they are an insignificant part of the game is folly, unless you've never fought a decent hunter with a decent gun.

In fact, there was a time when many considered the BRK 1000 to be the best ranged weapon in the game.

Here are a few guns in wow:

Wrathful Gladiator's Shotgun	2184	277	Gun		Vendor, PvP	4
50444	Rowan's Rifle of Silver Bullets	1994	264	Gun		Drop	4
51449	Wrathful Gladiator's Rifle	1930	264	Gun		Vendor, PvP	4
51845	Stakethrower	1882	264	Gun			4
51834	Dreamhunter's Carbine	1943	264	Gun			4
47523	Fezzik's Autocannon	1844	258	Gun			4
48424	Relentless Gladiator's Shotgun	1821	258	Gun		Vendor, PvP	4
47521	BRK-1000	1844	258	Gun			4
51385							4
51561

Maybe you don't know what the word re-skinned means, because that is exactly a reskinned bow. Slow but a little more damage a hit, with some exceptions. In fact they are the exact same thing as all the bows. They are used the same way, same abilities, literally everything. So no, you lose that argument. As it stands a game without guns has absolutely wiped the floor with jsut about all other games out there. Making your original ingonrant statement exactly that, an ignorant staement.

Thanks. I thought so as well. Why does this persist, is my question, lol.

lol, ok. So I understand. You are implying that a reskinned item has nothing to do with its outward appearance, but instead, is derived from its stats?

I'd always took "reskin" to imply that an enemy or item had its color changed or its apperance slightly altered, its stats upgraded, and its name changed. Basically, using the same wireframe model but changing the outside texture.

So, by your definition, an Axe in WoW can be a reskin of a dagger or a sword, despite looking completely and utterly different, simply becasue it has relatively similar underlying statistics. In fact, by your logic, every melee weapon in WoW is a reskin, and there are NO weapons in the game, because reskins don't count.

Even so, you would still be wrong. There are talents and skill points in WoW that relate to specific weapon classes. They are not interchangable, just as Daggers and Swords are not. Dwarves, for instance, at one point had a +5 racial to guns. There are also many guns in the game that don't have equivelant bows, and vice versa. A toon that is proficient with a gun, may not be able to hit anything with a bow, and vice versa. Also, the weapon speeds tend to vary between guns and bows, and that is a main factor in choosing a weapon as a BM hunter for example, or one who focuses on aimed shot. This is especially true early in the game.

The fact that we are discussing very specific issues that every hunter must contend with, related to guns, makes your assertion that there are no guns in WoW at all, seem like a complete farce.

I loved fallout in terms of the environment and game-play but the story is ... well better not go there :S

lol, yeah man, the story sucked. However, the story kinds sucks in most WRPGs, imo. They instead, focus around individual npc interactions. Kinda like how, in Fallout 3, Moira isn't really important to the story at all, but she's one of my favorite characters, and her quest is one of the best parts of the game. In fact, when I replayed the game, I didn't really bother to do the main quest. The story was very generic, and in the end, unimportant.

That's not to say the game doesn't have great narrative, as the character interaction in the game is, imo, second to none, and the "talking" portions off the game are imo, the best part, with the actual story-arch being the worst, and somehow least important part of the actual game for me. There is so much to explore and find in the game, and I just had an absolute blast putting myself in the shoes of a waste dweller, Liam Neeson and his fantastic acting be damned.

I've heard some people believe that New Vegas will be a return to the dark humor center that made the original games so popular. If that's the case, I'm excited about it, because I don't want remakes of games I've already beaten(Fallout 3 has enough excellent expansion packs). I'm a huge fallout fan either way, so I can't wait, and imo, 3 is my favorite installment.

Actually, that - or a part of that - is one of my biggest gripes with it.

While there is a lot of stuff to do, most of that equates to pointless busywork. You can only see a generic blasted-out office building so many times before you get sick of them, and just about always the only thing you can do in them is either a) hoarding loot you'll never either use or sell, or b) abusing the broken battle system beating either the generic human enemies, the neutered Enclave, or the orc mar- er, "super" mutant hordes. The game has its share of bright spots, like the Harold quest or the pseudo-superheroes, but beyond those few it's - well - flat out BORING. Really, it's the same issue Oblivion suffers from, only not as bad.

And I stopped using VATS a few hours into the game since it wrecked the already abusable battle system even further. And I sunk a good 40 hours into it on my only runthrough, so saying that it "gets good" n hours in is kind of pointless - if it has gotten good at that point, it's not worth my time.

The game has a crapload of other issues as well, like the atrocious plot with roughly the most disappointing ending ever, being audiovisually bland with the stilted animations being absolute immersion-killers, being way too combat heavy for my liking since the combat's bad etc.

The only thing that can save this game for me is modding it up the arse, since the base game falls short on quite many ways.

Well now you know someone who loves all three!

lol, actually he knows 2 people now!!! :)

That said, I vaguely noted those issues while I was having the time of my life. It's such a huge game, that you can point out many individual flaws, but any game is greater(or worse) than the sum of its parts. In these examples I like to point to Resistance 2, which used a notorious bullet points list as a sales tactic. The game did indeed live up to all of those bullet points, it just wasn't as good as one would assume, despite that.

Again, there might be a list of negatives about any great game a mile long, but one positive can completely overcome that, if it's big enough.

Our base disagreement, it seems, is that you found the exploration of the waste to be busywork and repetitive, I found it to be vastly exciting, like I was really exploring, and there was SO MUCH stuff to find out there, hidden in those ruins, so many people and stories, and quests, and references, that it just blew my mind. On my first run, for instance SPOILER, I completely missed the forest section of the game, or the alternative radio station....I haven't had as much fun exploring a game since the original Zelda. I never, ever, got bored playing Fallout 3, so in that, our opinions diverge.