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Forums - Sony Discussion - PLAYSTATION MOVE issue?

Nick on 03 May 2010
joeorc said:
.jayderyu said:
This is only an issue because Sony bad mouthed the entire idea of motion control. They made considerable negative commentary not on tech, but the entire notion. They shit on the notion of motion, they shit on the notion of expanded gamers, they shit on the notion of new experience. They shit on everything the Nintendo tried to do.

Then boom a couple of days later the SIXAXIS. Few years down the road Sony is now the beacon of light of expanded audience, new experience and motion controls for the PS3 fans. If Sony actually had showed any modicum of respect towards some company for taking a risk rather that shitting on everything Nintendo was trying to do then this attitude would not exists. Since then the Sony group has taken a massive beating. Everything that Sony fans believe in have been put to test and been failing miserably. There are no saving games and now things are coming into perspective.

There also blind spot's that some people like to use. Trying bend the story of firsts. In business it's a business decision, not technical achievements. This argument here. The truth is that this argument as some valid points. Though remember half truths can make lies. Many companies have R&D departments. What isn't being stated is that dozens of companies have developed similar tech over the years. Not just Sony. Wands/Pointers have been around for a while. Secondly Nintendo biggest inspiration is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirby_Tilt_'n'_Tumble again something that people would love for you to forget. The game was released in 2000. Which means there was about 1998 is when development started and probably 1997 when the idea was offered to Nintendo. No notice of these parts of the argument is there?

The best thing to consider is not where Nintendo got technology. I'm 100% positive that Kirby's Tilt and Tumble was inspired by technology that they saw elsewhere at various technological shows, but we should mostly consider Nintendos effort to actually put advancing controller technology into play. It's business not R&D that drives the industry. Something again that people would rather consider insignificant.

"This is only an issue because Sony bad mouthed the entire idea of motion control"

no it's more the IDEA to rag on Sony because it's Sony. just like there are people that will rag on Microsoft or Nintendo because it's Nintendo or Microsoft!

what one PR of each company say's just give's that outspoken more of a reason to keep browbeating a company. because they already do it anyway!

with out the R&D no development!, you cannot have it both way's yes the business end is just as important, but so is the R&D.

No matter How people like to claim one copy's over the other in most cases it's not true at all, what is true is someone in most likelihood get's their technology out first!

just because someone releases it first does not mean they have complete ownership of the IDEA!

 

 

It's not the idea that was copied, it's the implementation.  Sony's move is a "me too" product and nothing more.



Smash Bros: 2363-5325-6342 

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joeorc on 03 May 2010
Garnett said:
Rpruett said:
Garnett said:
Rpruett said:
Garnett said:
leo-j said:
they are so copying nintendo EVEN THOUGH THEY FUCKING HAD THE SAME TECH IN 2004, they are still copying nintendo.

My take on it, if it wasn't for nintendo sony wouldn't have released move, but MOVE is not a copy, since it was in development since will before the wii was even shown in public

I hate to sound like a dick but..

 

Did Sony ever bundle it with every console?

 

Fact is Nintendo took the risk and succeded now Sony and MS watch a piece of the motion control market. Both MS and Sony are copying Nintendo in there own ways.

 

Sure Natal is different, but its gonna compete with Wii mote.

The PS mote might be a complete copy but its better than the basic Wii mote which is a huge plus (No pun intended)

But again, Nintendo took the tech primarily from Sony's piggy bank.  Did Nintendo come up with the creative idea for it?  Did Nintendo fund a good portion of the groundwork for the project?   In most cases, no they didn't.   So while MS / Sony are trying to replicate the Wii's success or steal some of it's thunder,   even Nintendo is guilty of copying in this regard. 

The Idea of motion controls have been around since the 1980's.

It's not just the idea for it. It's the idea for interface, idea for everything revolving around it.  Sony did not come up with all of these either.  Neither did Nintendo.  That's the whole point.

On a simplistic sense, Sony came up with the technology for the Wand first which Nintendo copied.  Nintendo came up with the risky idea of trying it as a main form of control for their system which Sony is now copying by providing an option to use motion controls.

 

People making a big issue out of this are Nintendo fanboys or people trying to create drama/issues where there is none.  This type of thing happens constantly in this industry.

Did anyone else bundle it succesfully like Nintendo has done?

 

No one has been more succesfull than Nintendo with the Wii.

 

If the Wii had never launched then PS mote nor Natal would be coming out.

I am in full agreement due to the fact the EYETOY was not lighting up the ps2 gamer's when it was released for the PS2.

The developer for the EYETOY even stated the PSWand on the PS2 would have had problem's performing some function's due to the PS2's limitation's with it's hardware the same with the first xbox and the Game cube, it's no wonder why these machine's are more robust to handle the requirement's needed for certain function's that motion control's would need even though the Wii being the lowest spec's out of these new machine's.

it's still way more advanced in it's hardware than the game cube. the Game cube does not hold a candle to the hardware that's in the Wii. not saying the Game cube was not a great machine, because it is. i own 2 of them.. .

the succesfull release and sales of the Wii just established Motion control's as a very Viable control scheme that both Sony an Microsoft did not think the cosumer's would be ready to support like they already do with game control pad's.

If anything Nintendo Moved the entire industry forward.

though that does not mean that the entire industry copied Nintendo, it just mean's some did not see the motion control's as a main control scheme for game console's even if there were R&D LAB'S IN OTHER COMPANIES OUT SIDE OF Nintendo that felt the same way as Nintendo have about Motion control's.

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

joeorc on 03 May 2010
Nick said:
joeorc said:
.jayderyu said:
This is only an issue because Sony bad mouthed the entire idea of motion control. They made considerable negative commentary not on tech, but the entire notion. They shit on the notion of motion, they shit on the notion of expanded gamers, they shit on the notion of new experience. They shit on everything the Nintendo tried to do.

Then boom a couple of days later the SIXAXIS. Few years down the road Sony is now the beacon of light of expanded audience, new experience and motion controls for the PS3 fans. If Sony actually had showed any modicum of respect towards some company for taking a risk rather that shitting on everything Nintendo was trying to do then this attitude would not exists. Since then the Sony group has taken a massive beating. Everything that Sony fans believe in have been put to test and been failing miserably. There are no saving games and now things are coming into perspective.

There also blind spot's that some people like to use. Trying bend the story of firsts. In business it's a business decision, not technical achievements. This argument here. The truth is that this argument as some valid points. Though remember half truths can make lies. Many companies have R&D departments. What isn't being stated is that dozens of companies have developed similar tech over the years. Not just Sony. Wands/Pointers have been around for a while. Secondly Nintendo biggest inspiration is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirby_Tilt_'n'_Tumble again something that people would love for you to forget. The game was released in 2000. Which means there was about 1998 is when development started and probably 1997 when the idea was offered to Nintendo. No notice of these parts of the argument is there?

The best thing to consider is not where Nintendo got technology. I'm 100% positive that Kirby's Tilt and Tumble was inspired by technology that they saw elsewhere at various technological shows, but we should mostly consider Nintendos effort to actually put advancing controller technology into play. It's business not R&D that drives the industry. Something again that people would rather consider insignificant.

"This is only an issue because Sony bad mouthed the entire idea of motion control"

no it's more the IDEA to rag on Sony because it's Sony. just like there are people that will rag on Microsoft or Nintendo because it's Nintendo or Microsoft!

what one PR of each company say's just give's that outspoken more of a reason to keep browbeating a company. because they already do it anyway!

with out the R&D no development!, you cannot have it both way's yes the business end is just as important, but so is the R&D.

No matter How people like to claim one copy's over the other in most cases it's not true at all, what is true is someone in most likelihood get's their technology out first!

just because someone releases it first does not mean they have complete ownership of the IDEA!

 

 

It's not the idea that was copied, it's the implementation.  Sony's move is a "me too" product and nothing more.

while i respect your Opinion on the matter it's not a "Mii too" product!

once again just because one company release their technology first does not mean they are the only one's with that same IDEA.

Not to mention trying to convince some of the people in charge in a company when you do not get to make the decisions, sometime's hinder's said progress and sometime's it takes the success of another company to get the higher up's to see thing's differently.

just imagine you spent all that money and development on a product and less than 20% of your user base purchases the device.

when the next system releases the price is already at $500.00 or $600.00 and you would have to increase that price further just to release Motion control's. or you could wait until the other system  well or poorly it does and go from there.

your core system get's lower in price and the other system has a control system close too your own  type of system that was already in development. cheaper to wait. is something I would think they agreed on.

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Bamboleo on 03 May 2010
joeorc said:
Bamboleo said:
Arius Dion said:
Bamboleo said:
@ joeorc

I have one single question for you.

If Sony was planning the PS Move since 2004 why this statement form themselves?

"I think the notion of that controller is a non-trivial point that you’ve brought up, that control and that familiarity is like comfort food - from my perspective, we lead, we don’t follow. And as a brand, Nintendo’s got their thing, and we’re not trying to get the senior citizen group to get into gaming"

", but we’d never consider iterating off of existing competitive technology - because we think that’s a fad and that’s not the way we approach product development. It’s not the way we approach the marketing or the branding of PlayStation."

I'd really like someone to explain this. A company that "is creating" a motion sensing pad trolling themselves? ;)

Ups ;)


LoL.

I wonder the amount of Spin Skill one needs to justify this.

Still waiting for a response ;)

 

 

ok spin this:

Inventors: Shimizu; Takao (Kyoto, JP); Suzuki; Toshiaki (Kyoto, JP)
Assignee: Nintendo Co., Ltd. (Kyoto, JP)
Appl. No.: 440111
Filed: May 19, 2003


BACKGROUND AND SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

Japanese Patent Laid-Open Publication No. 2001-170358 discloses a game system (hereinafter, referred to as "a conventional technique") using a tilt sensor. In this conventional technique, when a handheld game device or a game controller (hereinafter, referred to as "a game device, etc." in place of "a handheld game device or a game controller") is tilted, a game image is generated in which an object such as a player character, etc., moves (rolls over) in the direction of tilt, thereby allowing a player to feel as if a game space is actually tilted in accordance with a tilt of the game device, etc.

The above described conventional technique, however, is used for controlling a two-dimensional game image, and cannot be adapted to a three-dimensional game image which has become prevalent as a game image.

that's nintendo's patent!

look up Sony's and you will see there is no spin, claim all you want Sony did not copy nor did Nintendo Copy Sony they were both working on the same IDEA for Motion controll's, since the DEVELOPMENT OF THE Nintendo Wii mote was being development since the Game cube why was it not released for the Game cube also?

it's simple

it also was not ready yet.

I don't need to spin anything. Just tell me why that Sony comment bashing motion control while they "had" a motion control in the works lol. Epic lol.

 

 



joeorc on 03 May 2010
Bamboleo said:
joeorc said:
Bamboleo said:
Arius Dion said:
Bamboleo said:
@ joeorc

I have one single question for you.

If Sony was planning the PS Move since 2004 why this statement form themselves?

"I think the notion of that controller is a non-trivial point that you’ve brought up, that control and that familiarity is like comfort food - from my perspective, we lead, we don’t follow. And as a brand, Nintendo’s got their thing, and we’re not trying to get the senior citizen group to get into gaming"

", but we’d never consider iterating off of existing competitive technology - because we think that’s a fad and that’s not the way we approach product development. It’s not the way we approach the marketing or the branding of PlayStation."

I'd really like someone to explain this. A company that "is creating" a motion sensing pad trolling themselves? ;)

Ups ;)


LoL.

I wonder the amount of Spin Skill one needs to justify this.

Still waiting for a response ;)

 

 

ok spin this:

Inventors: Shimizu; Takao (Kyoto, JP); Suzuki; Toshiaki (Kyoto, JP)
Assignee: Nintendo Co., Ltd. (Kyoto, JP)
Appl. No.: 440111
Filed: May 19, 2003


BACKGROUND AND SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

Japanese Patent Laid-Open Publication No. 2001-170358 discloses a game system (hereinafter, referred to as "a conventional technique") using a tilt sensor. In this conventional technique, when a handheld game device or a game controller (hereinafter, referred to as "a game device, etc." in place of "a handheld game device or a game controller") is tilted, a game image is generated in which an object such as a player character, etc., moves (rolls over) in the direction of tilt, thereby allowing a player to feel as if a game space is actually tilted in accordance with a tilt of the game device, etc.

The above described conventional technique, however, is used for controlling a two-dimensional game image, and cannot be adapted to a three-dimensional game image which has become prevalent as a game image.

that's nintendo's patent!

look up Sony's and you will see there is no spin, claim all you want Sony did not copy nor did Nintendo Copy Sony they were both working on the same IDEA for Motion controll's, since the DEVELOPMENT OF THE Nintendo Wii mote was being development since the Game cube why was it not released for the Game cube also?

it's simple

it also was not ready yet.

I don't need to spin anything. Just tell me why that Sony comment bashing motion control while they "had" a motion control in the works lol. Epic lol.

 

 

because one PR company never bashes any other company for no reason right?

god it just seem's when PR gets posted some of the people hate on one company PR and only blame that company for Bad PR when they all do it. but it seem's only one company is more at fault over it than other's just like Some like to spout off some "fan's" of a game console are worse than other "game console fan's".

their PR. that's what PR. is paid to do.

just because they bashed Motion control's does not mean they do not have one of their own , or that other companies did not feel that way about motion control's. it just mean's their trying to put doubt about a product in the Mind's of the consumer's it's like the mud slinging in political campaign's.

they all do it.

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Around the Network
Bamboleo on 03 May 2010

The so called sony "motion control" from 2004 is nothing but a colored object having such color tracked by the eye toy camera. Even I can do this with some garage software, a giant lollipop and a crappy PC camera.

Yup, it looks nothing like PS Move. Which by the way, is a straight rip off of the wiimote. Fact.

I just which the remaining 5~6 people in VGChartz would admit that lol. It would turn things way more simple on these forums.

 



Nick on 03 May 2010
joeorc said:
Nick said:

It's not the idea that was copied, it's the implementation.  Sony's move is a "me too" product and nothing more.

while i respect your Opinion on the matter it's not a "Mii too" product!

once again just because one company release their technology first does not mean they are the only one's with that same IDEA.

Not to mention trying to convince some of the people in charge in a company when you do not get to make the decisions, sometime's hinder's said progress and sometime's it takes the success of another company to get the higher up's to see thing's differently.

just imagine you spent all that money and development on a product and less than 20% of your user base purchases the device.

when the next system releases the price is already at $500.00 or $600.00 and you would have to increase that price further just to release Motion control's. or you could wait until the other system  well or poorly it does and go from there.

your core system get's lower in price and the other system has a control system close too your own  type of system that was already in development. cheaper to wait. is something I would think they agreed on.

 

 

I didn't say it was a unique idea.  This idea has been floating around forever.  It's not even unique to these companies.  It's implementation into the market is what makes it a "me too" product.  They would have never released Move (especially not in it's current form) without the Wiimote.  After years of mocking motion controls they are now trying to get a piece of the Wii pie.  Waiting to see how your competitor performs and then adding what is making them successful to your system is exactly what makes it a "me too" product. 

They are playing following the leader.  I feel that is obvious. 



Smash Bros: 2363-5325-6342 

mike_intellivision on 03 May 2010
joeorc said:
mike_intellivision said:
To 99% of people out there, it does not matter who truly had the technology first. To them, it will seem as if the Sony Move is Wii Remote-like.

To the casual gamer, this could be seen as "this is what the Wii HD should have been" (as Pacther thinks). Or this could be seen as "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

Given the price point, I doubt many people will upgrade from the Wii (as Pacther predicts). But it might cause a few people to think about the versatility of the machine and purchase a new PS3 as opposed to a Wii or Xbox 360. (Or course Natal could do that for the Xbox 360 and the new WS/WSR/WM+ standard package as of May 9 in North America could do that for Wii.).

A bigger concern is software. When Brunswick Bowling is included the Game Informer preview, that has me worried. (The game was shovelware on the Wii -- not as good as Wii Sports' Bowling).

Mike from Morgantown

yea i completely agree , but also Sony had already stated that was a pre alpha build for the game, so it was no where near ready they were just showing what it was in development and since you also own a Wii like my family does.

you know as well as I do one of the first game's that motion control's are geared for just because of the way the motion control's on Both Nintendo's and Sony's machine's work, bowling would be one of the first  type of game most likely that come's to mind when developing a game for motion control's. even with No controller in hand Microsoft's motion control will in all likelihood have also some bowling fun.

 

Note, my comments about Brunswick Bowling was in regards to the Wii version.

I have no info on the PS3 version. It could be drek. It could be PBA Bowling quality.

 

Mike from Morgantown



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

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NNID: Mike_INTV
joeorc on 03 May 2010

there have been many cases on the internet of PR to try to put doubt in the mind's of consumer's on each system this generation , and many time's it's not even the PR of the companies doing it!

with Nintendo it was mainly: a kiddie console, or Who want's motion control's?

with Sony it was mainly: the PRICE, who need's Blu-Ray the PS3 is just a Blu-Ray player that play's game's, or the console has no game's

with Microsoft it was mainly: god that thing fail's way too much, they charge for everything, so the system is not worth it vs' the PS3 and what it has to offer.

all of that is PR in trying to put the system's in a negative light. it's been that way since the start of this generation.



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

joeorc on 03 May 2010
Bamboleo said:

The so called sony "motion control" from 2004 is nothing but a colored object having such color tracked by the eye toy camera. Even I can do this with some garage software, a giant lollipop and a crappy PC camera.

Yup, it looks nothing like PS Move. Which by the way, is a straight rip off of the wiimote. Fact.

I just which the remaining 5~6 people in VGChartz would admit that lol. It would turn things way more simple on these forums.

 

yea never mind they showed that very demo before 2004

say back in 2002 at siggeraph ..lol

or the very fact that Sony patent their motion control's 3d control scheme in dec of 2004.

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.