Thanks to the Nintendo fans for proving my point for me.

"Of course, Nintendo fans who want to get on a soapbox about this will completely try to justify this:"

    

@ Gnac

The N64 stick was digital, not analog.  Not that it truly matters, but it's good to have all the info when you are going to claim someone is "copying" (not sure if you have claimed they copied, but many ignorant people have).  And I'll definitely concede on the fact that Sony drew inspiration from the SNES controller, and then improved upon it.  I don't think they changed the design of the Dual Shock largely because if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  I find the Dual Shock to be a perfect fit in my hand, and I also prefer the alligned analog sticks.  I guess Capcom did, too.  They must know a good design when they see one.  And I'm guessing most people do, as you can see the inspiration from it in most controls since it's release.

Like I said before, they all do it.  So people just need to inform themselves and quit whining.

joeorc said: so that make's the majority alway's right huh? so when the earth was said to be flat at one time like the majority thought and a very few said no the earth is an oval or round did that make the earth still flat because the majority said so? that does not mean the Majority is alway's right.

thismeintiel said: Thanks to the Nintendo fans for proving my point for me. "Of course, Nintendo fans who want to get on a soapbox about this will completely try to justify this:"      @ Gnac The N64 stick was digital, not analog.  Not that it truly matters, but it's good to have all the info when you are going to claim someone is "copying" (not sure if you have claimed they copied, but many ignorant people have).  And I'll definitely concede on the fact that Sony drew inspiration from the SNES controller, and then improved upon it.  I don't think they changed the design of the Dual Shock largely because if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  I find the Dual Shock to be a perfect fit in my hand, and I also prefer the alligned analog sticks.  I guess Capcom did, too.  They must know a good design when they see one.  And I'm guessing most people do, as you can see the inspiration from it in most controls since it's release. Like I said before, they all do it.  So people just need to inform themselves and quit whining.

Can you verify this? It seems that it at least had the precision expected of today's analogue inputs, and that should not be disregarded. The main reason I responded to this post was regarding the issue of the form factor of the controllers, which highlights their purpose. I haven't commented on the form factor of the Move (in this thread or others), because I believe that only so much can be done with regards to ergonomics when trying to achieve a certain purpose.

The other reason I even bother to comment in threads like this is because people are so pedantic. The slightest tweak allegedly makes the world of difference, but in the greater scheme of things, it does not. There are so many factors to consider, that we cannot isolate one as a barometer of success.

EDITed to address the awful attitude of the poster I replied to

thismeintiel said: Thanks to the Nintendo fans for proving my point for me. "Of course, Nintendo fans who want to get on a soapbox about this will completely try to justify this:"     @ Gnac The N64 stick was digital, not analog.  Not that it truly matters, but it's good to have all the info when you are going to claim someone is "copying" (not sure if you have claimed they copied, but many ignorant people have).  And I'll definitely concede on the fact that Sony drew inspiration from the SNES controller, and then improved upon it.  I don't think they changed the design of the Dual Shock largely because if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  I find the Dual Shock to be a perfect fit in my hand, and I also prefer the alligned analog sticks.  I guess Capcom did, too.  They must know a good design when they see one.  And I'm guessing most people do, as you can see the inspiration from it in most controls since it's release. Like I said before, they all do it.  So people just need to inform themselves and quit whining.

Nintendo 64's analog

Whether a control stick is analog or not depends on how the term "analog" is defined in the context of controllers. There are two ways the term can relate:

1. Analog movement/control - a device that can send a range of values from a given input.

2. Analog signal - a signal capable of varying throughout a range of electrical value.

The Atari 5200 was both of these. The Nintendo 64 and later consoles, were "analog movement/control", with an optical/digital signal.

It seems appropriate to classify any input device with "analog movement/control" as an "analog stick" MachineKeebler (talk) 06:10, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

on most of the more recent systems, doesn't any analog signal needs to be converted to digital at some point in the process? --TiagoTiago (talk) 01:57, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
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No matter how you want to view it, Sony released their controller without thumbsticks and only decided to add them after they saw how well Nintendo's thumbstick worked for 3d games.  Their controller was also unabashedly a SNES controller (particularly before the thumbsticks).  This is reality and it is also a good thing.
The Wii's classic controller copies things from the dual shock, which copies things from the SNES and N64 controllers. 

yeah i know what u mean, i don't mind it at first but then it gets old....THEY ALL COPY EACH OTHER IN SAME WAY....right now its just sony copying nintendo, but they all have been guilty of it one time or another and I'm sure this wont be the last time

Squilliam said: No the real issue is this: How to get people who weren't enthused by the original Wii concept and games, weren't enthused by motion+ and games, and who haven't got a game console to purchase the PS3 with Move for at least 50% more than the original Wii which doesn't come with either WS or WS2 when all I have seen thus far are duplicates of done and dusted Wii games AND when both Mod Nation and Gran Turismo don't look to be suitable for emulation of the Wiis most successful 'gamer' product Mario Kart.

The pricing / game bundles haven't been announced yet, but either way the premise is that you can get motion games and access to all PS3 games for less than $100 plus the cost of a standard PS3 console, which is less than the cost of a PS3 + Wii.  Plus they can market it to existing Wii owners who might otherwise not want to give up the motion games.

Personally though I think it is more about not losing existing customers who might otherwise buy a Wii and stop buying PS3 games.
 

Squilliam said: How can Sony even hope to enthuse these people with a marginal library and likely unwillingness to devote their core AAA talent to producing ground up concepts to take advantage of the interface simply because they cannot afford to given their massive losses thus far in the generation and a desire to not further the financial bleeding financing thousands of developers towards concepts which may net poor to very poor returns on the above average Sony style budgets?

I disagree with your "marginal library" comment, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Anyhow, since they already invested in the hardware, why wouldn't they invest in the software?  Also, with the Move being very similar to the Wii Motion+, I expect to see a lot of 3rd-party Wii ports on the PS3 to fill that void.

If Sony was just able to release a Wii emulator, they'd be set :)  Either that or just copy the Wii's successful games :)

yawn isn't this thread locked yet?? so much for trying to make vgchartz a friendlier place to be, this thread is only causing trouble as usual the wii boys are at the head of ps move is a copy and will flop, btw i KNOW LOTS OF PS FANS WHO ARE BUYING PS MOVE, i WILL GET Ready to laugh if it's as successful as the ps eye was on ps2 (10 million sold), but to be honest i hope it has massive sales it will serve them right.

Edit: btw E3 IS COMING SOON AND MORE PS MOVE GAMES should be there so why don't you all stop it and wait until then.

DM235 said: Squilliam said: How can Sony even hope to enthuse these people with a marginal library and likely unwillingness to devote their core AAA talent to producing ground up concepts to take advantage of the interface simply because they cannot afford to given their massive losses thus far in the generation and a desire to not further the financial bleeding financing thousands of developers towards concepts which may net poor to very poor returns on the above average Sony style budgets? I disagree with your "marginal library" comment, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Anyhow, since they already invested in the hardware, why wouldn't they invest in the software?  Also, with the Move being very similar to the Wii Motion+, I expect to see a lot of 3rd-party Wii ports on the PS3 to fill that void. If Sony was just able to release a Wii emulator, they'd be set :)  Either that or just copy the Wii's successful games :)

If you think there's a void, then it makes Squilliam perfectly right about "marginal" library. On top of that what makes you think 3rd party support is somehow relevant and not marginal? They weren't able to find success on Wii for about 4 years, they're likely to continue this trend on PS3 with motion-controlled games.

DM235 said:

Less than $100 + the price of a PS3 is still twice the price of a Wii. Even with a $350 Move bundle its quite a significant hike for a console which doesn't come with Wii Fit, Mario Kart, New Super Mario Bros, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Sports or also known as this generations cadre of 20M+ selling games. The Wiis value is made by the software and Sony are starting from zero here and they are unable to tap the true source of value for the Wii which is the Nintendo first and second party. So on two counts its coming out with a poor value proposition in both absolute price and the value of the software library to use the interface.

Marginal is relative to the Wii. Also a lot of the possibly great Move titles like Killzone 3 and MLB 2011 are slated for 2011 which doesn't help the system too much this holiday season in garnering critical momentum. They can't simply copy Nintendo because they don't share the same value system which led to the creation of those games and most people who truely liked the Nintendo games have already bought a Wii, this leaves very little of the market open to the idea of buying a $350 system to play games they have already played simply because they are prettier.

Squilliam said: No the real issue is this: How to get people who weren't enthused by the original Wii concept and games, weren't enthused by motion+ and games, and who haven't got a game console to purchase the PS3 with Move for at least 50% more than the original Wii which doesn't come with either WS or WS2 when all I have seen thus far are duplicates of done and dusted Wii games AND when both Mod Nation and Gran Turismo don't look to be suitable for emulation of the Wiis most successful 'gamer' product Mario Kart. How can Sony even hope to enthuse these people with a marginal library and likely unwillingness to devote their core AAA talent to producing ground up concepts to take advantage of the interface simply because they cannot afford to given their massive losses thus far in the generation and a desire to not further the financial bleeding financing thousands of developers towards concepts which may net poor to very poor returns on the above average Sony style budgets?

Squilliam, try to use this:     ,

Lol, now seriously, the games Sony showed are nothing but Wii Sports wannabes and some party stuff for kids that the hardcore player likes to call shovelware.

Having that "familiar" line up trying to boost a product that is a late copy from another very famous and "better" product, its the same story as HTC mobiles vs iPhone.

 

But I believe Sony will show some compelling game at E3! Let's hope!