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Forums - Sales Discussion - The Official March 2010 NPD Thread (Data for 5 weeks ending Apr 3 2010)

Kenology said:

Kotaku link for dolemit3's post is here.

The last thing I would want to read from kOTAKU is something concerning Wii news. You'd never get a rosy picture from them.



Leatherhat on July 6th, 2012 3pm. Vita sales:"3 mil for COD 2 mil for AC. Maybe more. "  thehusbo on July 6th, 2012 5pm. Vita sales:"5 mil for COD 2.2 mil for AC."

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ChrisIsNotSexy said:
Hyruken said:
psrock said:
Hyruken said:
Ok then time for the nasty stuff

VGC NPD Difference
Wii - 641k 557k 84k Overtracked (15% over)
360 - 462k 338k 124k Overtracked (36% over)
Ps3 - 438k 313k 125k Overtracked (39% over)
Ds - 627k 700k 73k Undertracked (10% under)
Psp - 158k 119k 39k Overtracked (32% over)
Ps2 - 82k 118k 36k Undertracked (30% under)

Once again Ps3 is the highest overtracked product by 39%.

It would appear NPD believe 360 is selling average of 84k a week and PS3 78k a week.
Vgc has them at 115k a week for 360 and 109k for PS3.

Which means both 360 and PS3 are not selling anywhere near the high numbers currently VGC has them acording to NPD. I find that most interesting as we are lead to believe on here the demand is high, especially for the PS3.

Accusing VGchartz is one thing, being wrong is even worst.

You are using NA numbers vs US numbers my friend. But, keep going....


Okay so let me get this straight. Your accusing me of being wrong when i used Sources numbers from the op?! How does that make me wrong?

As pointed out to you in this thread by at least three different people those are the correct numbers.

So maybe you should think a bit before you go for the "let's slag someone off" button. Because right now you look a bit like one of those net people who flame people for being wrong when they themselves are wrong, and we love those people right?

Dude...US doesn't mean the whole America...get it now?NPD=US numbers   VGChartz=American numbers

BIG difference...

He's talking about the USA numbers in the OP.



 

palancas7 said:
ChrisIsNotSexy said:
Hyruken said:
psrock said:
Hyruken said:
Ok then time for the nasty stuff

VGC NPD Difference
Wii - 641k 557k 84k Overtracked (15% over)
360 - 462k 338k 124k Overtracked (36% over)
Ps3 - 438k 313k 125k Overtracked (39% over)
Ds - 627k 700k 73k Undertracked (10% under)
Psp - 158k 119k 39k Overtracked (32% over)
Ps2 - 82k 118k 36k Undertracked (30% under)

Once again Ps3 is the highest overtracked product by 39%.

It would appear NPD believe 360 is selling average of 84k a week and PS3 78k a week.
Vgc has them at 115k a week for 360 and 109k for PS3.

Which means both 360 and PS3 are not selling anywhere near the high numbers currently VGC has them acording to NPD. I find that most interesting as we are lead to believe on here the demand is high, especially for the PS3.

Accusing VGchartz is one thing, being wrong is even worst.

You are using NA numbers vs US numbers my friend. But, keep going....


Okay so let me get this straight. Your accusing me of being wrong when i used Sources numbers from the op?! How does that make me wrong?

As pointed out to you in this thread by at least three different people those are the correct numbers.

So maybe you should think a bit before you go for the "let's slag someone off" button. Because right now you look a bit like one of those net people who flame people for being wrong when they themselves are wrong, and we love those people right?

Dude...US doesn't mean the whole America...get it now?NPD=US numbers   VGChartz=American numbers

BIG difference...

He's talking about the USA numbers in the OP.

Oh somehow I was thinking that those were NA numbers,not USA numbers,my bad :P



thelifatree said:

Well, Sony is still losing money on each PS3 is being sold. Sony can make a given amount of PS3's for a given cost. If they increase production, it increase costs which increases losses for sony.

Edit below, is the reasoning there would be shortages... But, it is always possible sony is lying about shortages. But below is something about economics.

here's something I copied from somewhere which is basically correct.

Why didn't Sony increase production of PS3 before FF13 and GOW3?"

That would be a good point if it made any sense whatsoever.

This will likely go over your head, but there's this thing. It's called 'the law of supply'. And what it means is that at a given price point, Sony can make a given number of PS3s at a given speed. It's not a matter of pushing some button that magically produces PS3s out of thin air and instantly transports them to store shelves near you. Increasing production means increasing costs, and considering that Sony already loses money on every PS3 sold, increased costs would mean that they would have to raise the price. Or eat an even bigger loss.

"Did they honestly didn't see shortage happening?"

It's not a matter of seeing shortages happening, it's a matter of fundamental economic principles. The PS3 costs $300. That pricepoint limits how many consoles Sony, or any other company for that matter, can produce, how fast, and how efficiently they can ship them. Companies always produce the maximum number of units possible at the available price point. Any more than that is a physical impossibility.

"If they didn't they they are plain and simple are stupid and they should fire those responsible."

Yes, the smart move here would clearly be to balloon production costs to absurd levels, and then, even though Sony is already losing money, not pass *any* of those increased costs to the consumer.

"Its basic common sense."

No, basic common sense says 'PS3s are not being manufactured by magical elves at the North Pole, so making more of them would involve raising production costs, which raises the price'.

"If you have a big heavy hitter make sure you have enough consoles to meet demand"

And they could very easily make sure they have enough consoles to meet demand -- by raising the price. Higher price means they can supply more of them while consumers demand less of them. Presto, no more shortages.

Oh jesus. Macro economic theory has nothing to do with the supply of PS3s.

The real reason goes something like this:

1. Components used to make the PS3 are in short supply.

2. Therefore Sony cannot make the PS3 in the numbers they want.



Tease.

Squilliam said:
thelifatree said:

Well, Sony is still losing money on each PS3 is being sold. Sony can make a given amount of PS3's for a given cost. If they increase production, it increase costs which increases losses for sony.

Edit below, is the reasoning there would be shortages... But, it is always possible sony is lying about shortages. But below is something about economics.

here's something I copied from somewhere which is basically correct.

Why didn't Sony increase production of PS3 before FF13 and GOW3?"

That would be a good point if it made any sense whatsoever.

This will likely go over your head, but there's this thing. It's called 'the law of supply'. And what it means is that at a given price point, Sony can make a given number of PS3s at a given speed. It's not a matter of pushing some button that magically produces PS3s out of thin air and instantly transports them to store shelves near you. Increasing production means increasing costs, and considering that Sony already loses money on every PS3 sold, increased costs would mean that they would have to raise the price. Or eat an even bigger loss.

"Did they honestly didn't see shortage happening?"

It's not a matter of seeing shortages happening, it's a matter of fundamental economic principles. The PS3 costs $300. That pricepoint limits how many consoles Sony, or any other company for that matter, can produce, how fast, and how efficiently they can ship them. Companies always produce the maximum number of units possible at the available price point. Any more than that is a physical impossibility.

"If they didn't they they are plain and simple are stupid and they should fire those responsible."

Yes, the smart move here would clearly be to balloon production costs to absurd levels, and then, even though Sony is already losing money, not pass *any* of those increased costs to the consumer.

"Its basic common sense."

No, basic common sense says 'PS3s are not being manufactured by magical elves at the North Pole, so making more of them would involve raising production costs, which raises the price'.

"If you have a big heavy hitter make sure you have enough consoles to meet demand"

And they could very easily make sure they have enough consoles to meet demand -- by raising the price. Higher price means they can supply more of them while consumers demand less of them. Presto, no more shortages.

Oh jesus. Macro economic theory has nothing to do with the supply of PS3s.

The real reason goes something like this:

1. Components used to make the PS3 are in short supply.

2. Therefore Sony cannot make the PS3 in the numbers they want.

That's the same thing only simplified. yes. Surely theres enough resources to create more components to create more ps3's. Thus Sony would have to invest more money into creating components at a faster rate costing more money.



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Noobie said:
 

So you are saying practically 26% - 53% money is lost by Sony. :O so MS having i think XBOX around 129 Pounds.. so its only 60 Pound at the day end.. :O.. Europeans r quite tight on 

Anyway if i remember correctly the store margin for PS3 in US on $300 is around $8 - 12.. Yup, around 3 - 4%.. 

(i will look for the source)

kindly give me your source also.. One is definitely wayyy off. :S

OK here is a link i found for japanese retailer.. which are getting $7.40 (Yen 700) for each PS3 sold..

http://www.destructoid.com/one-japanese-retailer-claims-7-profit-on-ps3-slim-145641.phtml

The japanese source is almost certainly wrong (disgruntled shop owner) or the $7.40 is the net amount after all expenses are accounted for by the dealer - a net profit of 2% is in line with other sales ares - the food industry (and  I think actually WalMart) is roughly in that range. Japan generally has higher cost of living, higher rents and social security costs so I'd even assume that store margins are equal if not higher than Europe.

Store margins are highly privvy in Europe (in one of my NDAs, it was specifically mentioned that giving out such numbers would result in serious court spanking..) and vary depending on the kind of product sold. I doubt any (bigger) shops will tell you anything if asked. For everyday clothing, for example, it was around 33% years ago (might not have changed), rising to 100% for better clothing and reaching 1000s% for haute couture. A game console is located in the standard consumer electronics area where margins hover in the 20%-25% range. Obviously I have only limited knowledge as far as other countries are concerned, but the business models in Europe are pretty identical (particularly since Europe business is governed by large multinational companies like the Mediamarkt/Saturn group. Microsoft probably is a special case since they would lose tons of money on their gaming hardware alone (despite the fact that 120G HDs are $150 here in Switzerland) given the standard margins. However, MS sells a lot more than gaming hardware so they might cross-finance and bundle stuff. Personally I am quite sure that MS loses more money per console than Sony (comparable systems sell around $60-$80 cheaper), but there is no way of knowing without hard data.



thelifatree said:
Squilliam said:

Oh jesus. Macro economic theory has nothing to do with the supply of PS3s.

The real reason goes something like this:

1. Components used to make the PS3 are in short supply.

2. Therefore Sony cannot make the PS3 in the numbers they want.

That's the same thing only simplified. yes. Surely theres enough resources to create more components to create more ps3's. Thus Sony would have to invest more money into creating components at a faster rate costing more money.

Nope.

They had production difficulties with their 45nm RSX chips. As it takes something like 10 weeks to get chips back from fabrication, they are pretty much supply limited by what chips they had at hand.



Tease.

 

Squilliam said:
thelifatree said:

That's the same thing only simplified. yes. Surely theres enough resources to create more components to create more ps3's. Thus Sony would have to invest more money into creating components at a faster rate costing more money.

Nope.

They had production difficulties with their 45nm RSX chips. As it takes something like 10 weeks to get chips back from fabrication, they are pretty much supply limited by what chips they had at hand.

But you are aware that the slims CECH-2000B (FW3.15) were manufactured with 65nm RSX? Available in almost unlimited quantities, and ordered _months_ in advance of actual need. Any problems with 45nm would not have played any role in the fy that just ended.

CECH-2100B (FW3.20) are manufactured with 45nm RSX. Also ordered _months_  before actual use. And Sony would not care whether Toshiba/whoever makes the RSX chips now has diffculties. They do not buy risk wafers, they have contracts with the chip manufacturer. If the chip foundry suddenly has yield problems (unlikely since 45nm lines have been in use for 2+ years now), they have to use more wafers than planned to fulfil the contract with Sony.

 



drkohler said:

 

Squilliam said:
thelifatree said:

That's the same thing only simplified. yes. Surely theres enough resources to create more components to create more ps3's. Thus Sony would have to invest more money into creating components at a faster rate costing more money.

Nope.

They had production difficulties with their 45nm RSX chips. As it takes something like 10 weeks to get chips back from fabrication, they are pretty much supply limited by what chips they had at hand.

But you are aware that the slims CECH-2000B (FW3.15) were manufactured with 65nm RSX? Available in almost unlimited quantities, and ordered _months_ in advance of actual need. Any problems with 45nm would not have played any role in the fy that just ended.

CECH-2100B (FW3.20) are manufactured with 45nm RSX. Also ordered _months_  before actual use. And Sony would not care whether Toshiba/whoever makes the RSX chips now has diffculties. They do not buy risk wafers, they have contracts with the chip manufacturer. If the chip foundry suddenly has yield problems (unlikely since 45nm lines have been in use for 2+ years now), they have to use more wafers than planned to fulfil the contract with Sony.

 

They have every incentive to not produce too many of the 65nm RSX chips as moving quickly to 45nm versions would likely save them considerable money. Its the most likely explanation because the switch over coincides with shortages.



Tease.

Squilliam said:
drkohler said:

 

Squilliam said:
thelifatree said:

That's the same thing only simplified. yes. Surely theres enough resources to create more components to create more ps3's. Thus Sony would have to invest more money into creating components at a faster rate costing more money.

Nope.

They had production difficulties with their 45nm RSX chips. As it takes something like 10 weeks to get chips back from fabrication, they are pretty much supply limited by what chips they had at hand.

But you are aware that the slims CECH-2000B (FW3.15) were manufactured with 65nm RSX? Available in almost unlimited quantities, and ordered _months_ in advance of actual need. Any problems with 45nm would not have played any role in the fy that just ended.

CECH-2100B (FW3.20) are manufactured with 45nm RSX. Also ordered _months_  before actual use. And Sony would not care whether Toshiba/whoever makes the RSX chips now has diffculties. They do not buy risk wafers, they have contracts with the chip manufacturer. If the chip foundry suddenly has yield problems (unlikely since 45nm lines have been in use for 2+ years now), they have to use more wafers than planned to fulfil the contract with Sony.

 

They have every incentive to not produce too many of the 65nm RSX chips as moving quickly to 45nm versions would likely save them considerable money. Its the most likely explanation because the switch over coincides with shortages.

but that was my initial point if they wanted to increase production they could for a cost if they used the 65nm chips. It would just cost them more money, which they don't want to do.