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Forums - Sony Discussion - Has Kojima Ruined Metal Gear Solid?

burning_phoneix said:
He ruined it with MGS2 not Peace Walker.

MGS2 was a phenomenal game. 
Different, but very good. People need to go back and play it without their snake manlover eyes, it's very, very good.  



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As far as I know. Lots of young kids in Japan use PSP, or other handhelds. I believe Kojima wants the young people in Japan to play Metal Gear Solid. So, my guess with all the monster hunter stuff, and funny ads in Peace Walker is geared towards them, the young people.



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SHMUPGurus said:
Khuutra said:
SHMUPGurus said:

Did we play the same game?

You never had the Dracula conversation and then turned the game off for about a day? Or got tranq'd after selfsame conversation?

No... I guess I missed some fanservice or something! o_O

So you're saying crazy secrets like that in MGS games are supposed to be known to everyone, thus making the MGS games hardly immersive? I find the games immersive by their gameplay and the interest I have in the storyline. I care about the characters trying to save people, not finding apes and fighting zombies or other stuff like that. That's a bonus. If you don't mind the crazy Kojima stuff, they tell a great story.

>>215906042

You missed a minigame sort of thing where you killed zombies in an action game. It was almost like a demo for another game altogether.

I'm saying that we can't make hasty assumptioins about the nature of these things.



BW_JP said:

[...]

a lot of you are taking this way to seriously. First of all, all the T-shirts are only for the Co-Ops multiplayer. Which is 100% away from the main story line. Monster hunter is also a co-ops mode, its not part of the main story, at all.

The main story is single player. Of course there will be some co-ops story as well, but it will not be the main plot line.

[...]

Ah! Thanks for clarifying. I will be able to sleep tonight! 'sides, Kojima for life.



Random game thought :
Why is Bionic Commando Rearmed 2 getting so much hate? We finally get a real game and they're not even satisfied... I'm starting to hate the gaming community so f****** much...

Watch my insane gameplay videos on my YouTube page!

BW_JP said:

Unfortunately, how you see immersion in video games appears to be considerably flawed. Though, it is a personal thing so I'll take that back. It's perfectly fine for things like the 'fourth wall' to interfear with your immersion in a game, but video games are not movies. They are not television and they certainly are not plays. The immersion in a video game is almost entirely based upon the ability of the game designer to keep you focused to beliving what you are viewing on screen. So you're not wrong in saying that these things break immersion on the surface. However, when playing metal gear solid, you are always expecting and hoping for comedic relief. Kojima is one of the, if not the best writers in the industry. A lot of people critize him for things that are intentionally in the game to provide that relief. MGS is a serious game, but it doesn't take itself seriously, it is very, very important to understand that when playing. Its filled with jokes and rediculous ideas. Things like psycho-mantis _add_ to the immersion because you are suddenly part of the game. Of course, you can take it in the wrong way, that's up to the player.

I admit it's been a while since someone told me my perceptions are "flawed" on this forum, I guess that's kind of refreshing. Like an old pair of sneakers.

And for the record, no, comedic relief was not hoped for nor expected as a matter of course in MGS1. The series didn't really receive a sense of humor until MGS2, and that wasn't capitalized until MGS3. MGS4 was almost a parody of itself.

"The fourth wall" is not limited to visual media, though you are right in claiming that expectations differ between pieces of media, and somewhat between genre. Breaking the fourth wall is certainly more expected in a piece of work wherein levity is one of the primary narrative tools (or focuses, even), but the complaint registered here was re: Metal Gear Solid as Serious Business. Immersion for a game like that would mean that one is able to suspend disbelief, which is to say that breaking the fourth wall would be breaking the immersion by definition.

The problem is not in how I view video games or immersion, it comes down to a disagreement between myself and SHMUPGuru concerning what constitutes immersion or appropriate content in Metal Gear Solid.

The most infuriating part of your post is that I think you actually agree with me.



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Kojima began ruining MGS immediately after MGS2.

MGS 1 was ground breaking and one of the best games of the decade. MGS2 was a rare sequel that was even better than the original, making it's mark as a landmark title in VG history.

After the backlash by illiterate gamers over MGS2's deep, engaging storyline and inclusion of Raiden and Rose we got a watered down sequel in MGS3. Still a great game but nowhere near MGS1 or 2 in depth.

With MGS4 Kojima added more depth and layer to the story again, but the forced attempts at comedy with Meryl and Johnny undermined the serious tone of the final chapter in the series. The highs and lows were so drastic that the game contained both some of the best moments in the series history and many of the very worst.

MGS PO and MGS PW are a continuation of Kojima's decline into delirium. He has more than once described himself as a "chef" whose job is to satisfy his customers (the gamers) He has repeatedly said that he does not consider video games art and that he places his gamers/customers wants above his artistic desires. This is why we keep getting new chapters in the series that are increasingly watered down...

Instead of making an artistic statement like he did with MGS1 and especially MGS2 and not giving a flying crap about what complaints gamers give him he has lost touch and is only interested in providing whatever throwaway entertainment people demand from him.

Granted he's still miles above the next best developer, but he's lightyears away from his peak in 2001 and increasingly further and furthe away.



SHMUPGurus said:
BW_JP said:

[...]

a lot of you are taking this way to seriously. First of all, all the T-shirts are only for the Co-Ops multiplayer. Which is 100% away from the main story line. Monster hunter is also a co-ops mode, its not part of the main story, at all.

The main story is single player. Of course there will be some co-ops story as well, but it will not be the main plot line.

[...]

Ah! Thanks for clarifying. I will be able to sleep tonight! 'sides, Kojima for life.

If it's for co-op it's not a big deal. We already had ape escape monkey's in MGS3 like someone else already said, so having monster from monster hunter co-op doesn't suprise me. 



contestgamer said:

Kojima began ruining MGS immediately after MGS2.

MGS 1 was ground breaking and one of the best games of the decade. MGS2 was a rare sequel that was even better than the original, making it's mark as a landmark title in VG history.

After the backlash by illiterate gamers over MGS2's deep, engaging storyline and inclusion of Raiden and Rose we got a watered down sequel in MGS3. Still a great game but nowhere near MGS1 or 2 in depth.

With MGS4 Kojima added more depth and layer to the story again, but the forced attempts at comedy with Meryl and Johnny undermined the serious tone of the final chapter in the series. The highs and lows were so drastic that the game contained both some of the best moments in the series history and many of the very worst.

MGS PO and MGS PW are a continuation of Kojima's decline into delirium. He has more than once described himself as a "chef" whose job is to satisfy his customers (the gamers) He has repeatedly said that he does not consider video games art and that he places his gamers/customers wants above his artistic desires. This is why we keep getting new chapters in the series that are increasingly watered down...

Instead of making an artistic statement like he did with MGS1 and especially MGS2 and not giving a flying crap about what complaints gamers give him he has lost touch and is only interested in providing whatever throwaway entertainment people demand from him.

Granted he's still miles above the next best developer, but he's lightyears away from his peak in 2001 and increasingly further and furthe away.

MGS2 was Kojima giving the bird to gamers. This has been documented!



SHMUPGurus said:
To all you guys saying this is OK... wtf. Seriously, it's called ruining the immersion of the whole MGS universe maybe?

 

It makes me sad that I had to go all the way to the bottom of the first page before somebody said this 



Crusty VGchartz old timer who sporadically returns & posts. Let's debate nebulous shit and expand our perpectives. Or whatever.

Khuutra said:
contestgamer said:

Kojima began ruining MGS immediately after MGS2.

MGS 1 was ground breaking and one of the best games of the decade. MGS2 was a rare sequel that was even better than the original, making it's mark as a landmark title in VG history.

After the backlash by illiterate gamers over MGS2's deep, engaging storyline and inclusion of Raiden and Rose we got a watered down sequel in MGS3. Still a great game but nowhere near MGS1 or 2 in depth.

With MGS4 Kojima added more depth and layer to the story again, but the forced attempts at comedy with Meryl and Johnny undermined the serious tone of the final chapter in the series. The highs and lows were so drastic that the game contained both some of the best moments in the series history and many of the very worst.

MGS PO and MGS PW are a continuation of Kojima's decline into delirium. He has more than once described himself as a "chef" whose job is to satisfy his customers (the gamers) He has repeatedly said that he does not consider video games art and that he places his gamers/customers wants above his artistic desires. This is why we keep getting new chapters in the series that are increasingly watered down...

Instead of making an artistic statement like he did with MGS1 and especially MGS2 and not giving a flying crap about what complaints gamers give him he has lost touch and is only interested in providing whatever throwaway entertainment people demand from him.

Granted he's still miles above the next best developer, but he's lightyears away from his peak in 2001 and increasingly further and furthe away.

MGS2 was Kojima giving the bird to gamers. This has been documented!

Yes and he should have done that since then...but he hasn't. He's scared now and just a puppet of gamers demands. No longer an artist with statements.