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GT5 gets stunning leaked replay footage!

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Looking amazing! :D Hope it comes before or after my Fall term starts cuz I want to spend a good ole time with this one

and Waron: How the hell do you know that this is part of the actual race and not a warm up lap? :S I didn't even consider it's NOT a warm up lap cuz it looks that obvious or have you really not seen races that much?



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Waron seriously, please stop posting in this or any other thread that has anything to do with racing because you dont have a clue about any aspect of it.



waron said:
lestatdark said:
eggs2see said:
lestatdark said:
eggs2see said:
lestatdark said:

Do you know why real life races have that warm up lap and why they do that semi-synchronized swaying around?

It's to warm up the tyres so that they have maximum adherence for the start up and for the first laps. Also, they go into the parts of the tracks where it has accumulated dirt and gravel to add some extra weight to ensure that the tyres don't skid around on the start.

If you pay any attention to real life racing, you see that the majority of all drivers follow the same exact line and path on the tracks, hence why there's a "clean" part of the track, where the rubber accumulates and the dirt dissipates. That line is considered the "optimal" line.

You see it everywhere, from F1 to Super GT, WTCC, JPGT, Moto GP1, Le mans, you name it. 

Your claim that the A.I in GT is BS because it always tries to follow the optimal line is itself BS, because in every SIM racer you play, that's exactly what the computer does. Race Pro, GTR2, Forza, Gran Prix, Gran Prix Legends, GT, because that's how racers are made in real life.

As for the rest of your comment....are you talking to yourself ? o.O

Lol, no way.. dirt and gravel is the enemy of grip, they try and avoid the dirty area's.  You will see in F1 (i don't know if they do it in other racing also) that the drivers will run wide of the racing line after a race to collect the marbles (rubber) to add weight, but this is for parc ferme as the cars have to weigh a certain amount or they will be disqualified. Just for future reference ;)

On the warm up lap, they do accumulate dirt and gravel. This is to maximize the effect of adherence when the wheels start spinning on the start up, as they rev up to 18K-20K RPM, otherwise, the wheels would just spin in place, creating burnouts.

What you're refering to, is the post race gravel accumulation, where they do the entire post-end race lap on the "dirty" part of the track, to accumulate gravel to add to the weight of the F1 car. 

Ugh.. rev limit is 18000 this season just so you know.  But dude please, just listen to me on this one i know what im talking about, the cars DO NOT collect dirt and gravel before a race on purpose, this would not help them off the launch this would infact hurt them, all f1 cars do on the warm-up lap is do skids to warm the tyres, mostly the rears

Yes, and when they skid around, do they not go into the "dirty" parts of the track and pick up gravel at the same time? 

During the mid-90s the technique for warming up was do short burst accelerations and strong decelerations on straight paths, avoiding escaping the optimal racing line. Even in some 2000 championships, this technique was still used. Nowadays, they just use the swaying technique.

I concede that I may be wrong in the aspect of picking up dirt on purpose, but they do pick it. They could change to a more efficient heating technique to avoid that, to have clean hot rubber for the optimal grip.

Anyway, we can be here arguing all night long. My original argument with waron and his claim that following an optimal line is not real life was BS still stands because that's exaclty what any racing pilot do. 

it's still shown during actual race and not test lap and that's the problem so don't try to make a reason or some stupid "design choice" BS - it's still "let's all drive in a straight line without actual racing" AI.

*Sigh* It's pretty much pointless to argue with you, as you have no idea how races progress or how other Sim racers games progress too. Let's give your "theory" a chance then. Show us any video of a real life race or any replay of a sim game in which cars do that during actual race.



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CGI-Quality said:
toastboy44562 said:
this is not gameplay, this is a replay

Which is what the thread title says.

OT: This is an old video. It was posted about 2.5months ago. For those commenting on the track detail, check out some of the crisper vids @ GTPlanet.net.

Thankyou for the link.  To many posters whining about a few people daring to suggest that GT5's graphics aren't perfect.  In steps CGI-quality, provides a newer link to better videos and allows people to make up their own mind. Nice work:)

For the record I hope GT5 is all that and a bag of chips because it will be the game that determines whether or not I shell out for a PS3.



GT5 Prologue already has decent AI compared to other games. Here take a look at this vid.

You will notice how the AI on the main straight doesnt stay in a single line and tries to out brake each other into turn 1. Though the only down side is the AI still isnt aware of the player at times. If you have played GT PSP you will notice this has been fixed as the AI in the PSP version notices where the player is and gives the player room while still trying to hold its racing line without pushing you off the track.

Now from the old CES2010 footage below you can see how the AI is improved in this video of GT5. The Toyota Supra avoids the player who starts driving the wrong way and attempts to do a head on with the Toyota Supra.

Skip to 2:20 in the vid to see what im talking about.

And if you watch this you will notice the AI fights to hold its position. While it still does cause body contact with the player the AI is alot more aggressive then previous GT games.

I hope that ends the bad AI single line nitpicking people keep going on about. You can see from these OLD BUILD videos that PD are listening to its fans and improving the AI.



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looks like real cars to me.



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The cars look great, but the environments not so great.



libellule said:
Reasonable said:
Looks pretty good. I never get why people would want 3D trees over 2D trees though. It's a driving sim. The second you add more off-track detail you're going to pay for it elsewhere whether the car models, number of cars, or other options (on console that is).

First and foremost I want the cars, lighting, handling and everything to do with the driving to excel. Everything else is much less important IMO.

Note this isn't a knock at Forza as such. It's a very good game. My view is simply Forza would be even better with 2D trees and say more cars or whatever else they could add (that affects driving and the look of the cars) if they dropped some of the detail.


even if I respect you and I agree with you

I do not understand WHY you feel important to justify yourself mentionning FM3 as if you were fearing to hurt a specific community ...

I only mentioned it to make clear I was talking in general about any game - not just Forza (i.e. it's a pre-emtive defense).  I've found if you just go:

"in a driving game I think the cars, phyics, etc. is more important than track detail"

360/Forza fans go "you're attacking Froza because it has 3D trees" etc etc.

I feel I shouldn't have to mention Forza but I've found if I do it does seem to prevent those remarks appearing.

But I agree it's a tough call and I always hesitate to mention it and I think in general you shouldn't need to put in pre-emptive defenses.

The problem is (without getting too off topic) that some titles/genres are now defined as PS3 vs 360 in some people's eyes (GT5 and Forza 3 being one of the biggest offenders) which makes it hard to comment from a driving title genre seperate from consoles without getting flamed by one side or the other.

For me a driving sim is about the driving - the background is nice for context and setting but unimportant overall vs the driving.  Therefore my view is that it's always better to reduce background/track detail if it allows an increase physics, handling, number of cars, AI etc instead.  This is my view whether the title is on PC, PS3, 360 or whatever.

An exception, of sorts, is a more arcade driving title - there background detail may be more important, particularly if a lot of the fun is allowing you to smash through it!

So don't worry - I didn't try my first stealth Troll!  Honest!

 

 



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

Reasonable said:
Looks pretty good. I never get why people would want 3D trees over 2D trees though. It's a driving sim. The second you add more off-track detail you're going to pay for it elsewhere whether the car models, number of cars, or other options (on console that is).

First and foremost I want the cars, lighting, handling and everything to do with the driving to excel. Everything else is much less important IMO.

Note this isn't a knock at Forza as such. It's a very good game. My view is simply Forza would be even better with 2D trees and say more cars or whatever else they could add (that affects driving and the look of the cars) if they dropped some of the detail.

I'll be honest - I may not be the biggest graphics whore, as I can play old PS1 and before that without any problem even after playing eye candy-type games like Crysis, Uncharted 2, but seeing 2D trees similar to Midtown Madness quality (ok, not that low, but you get the point), while at the same time seeing well crafted cars (which are some of the most finely detailed I've ever seen in a game) in a replay...it kind of upsets the balance for me, you know? They could at least use some more convenient visual trick than that, so as to avert such nitpicking.



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lestatdark said:
eggs2see said:
lestatdark said:
eggs2see said:
lestatdark said:
waron said:
lestatdark said:
waron said:
i hard to say that graphics looks good when the only thing that looks good there are cars. let's wait for vids from city or more detailed tracks and with some weather effects or different time of day cause it's not that hard to make the game look good when you have clear blue sky and very simple track to render with no backgroud.

looks like that big change in AI was complete BS to me - cars still drive in the same line except that on straight parts of the track they drive left and right all the time.

Dude....they do that in real life for the warm up lap only... I guess you stop watching races when they actually start racing?

do they do that like drunks driving from one side of the road to the other in so organized way that team gymnasts could learn a thing or two. it's the exact same AI but this time they ride sideways ALL THE TIME.

 

"gt5 cars are >>>> forza 3 cars
but so far forza 3 tracks >>>>> gt5 tracks"

did you considered the fact that each Forza 3 car can be visually tunned while from what we know there won't be any visual tunning in GT5 - it's easier to render a better looking car if it's one model(especially that only few will have very limited demage in GT) than making car models that will allow changing many parts of them and each part have to work with different cars.

to me best looking racing games still are PGR4, Grid, Dirt 2 and Forza 3 - who cares that cars look great when tracks are so bad compared to them that they simply distract you? each of those 4 games are great in every visual part(especially Grid and Dirt 2) and that makes them better looking games. also if we're talking about Nuburgring then there's no better game than PGR4, just ride a bike or car on that track during rain in this game - holy shit!

Do you know why real life races have that warm up lap and why they do that semi-synchronized swaying around?

It's to warm up the tyres so that they have maximum adherence for the start up and for the first laps. Also, they go into the parts of the tracks where it has accumulated dirt and gravel to add some extra weight to ensure that the tyres don't skid around on the start.

If you pay any attention to real life racing, you see that the majority of all drivers follow the same exact line and path on the tracks, hence why there's a "clean" part of the track, where the rubber accumulates and the dirt dissipates. That line is considered the "optimal" line.

You see it everywhere, from F1 to Super GT, WTCC, JPGT, Moto GP1, Le mans, you name it. 

Your claim that the A.I in GT is BS because it always tries to follow the optimal line is itself BS, because in every SIM racer you play, that's exactly what the computer does. Race Pro, GTR2, Forza, Gran Prix, Gran Prix Legends, GT, because that's how racers are made in real life.

As for the rest of your comment....are you talking to yourself ? o.O

Lol, no way.. dirt and gravel is the enemy of grip, they try and avoid the dirty area's.  You will see in F1 (i don't know if they do it in other racing also) that the drivers will run wide of the racing line after a race to collect the marbles (rubber) to add weight, but this is for parc ferme as the cars have to weigh a certain amount or they will be disqualified. Just for future reference ;)

On the warm up lap, they do accumulate dirt and gravel. This is to maximize the effect of adherence when the wheels start spinning on the start up, as they rev up to 18K-20K RPM, otherwise, the wheels would just spin in place, creating burnouts.

What you're refering to, is the post race gravel accumulation, where they do the entire post-end race lap on the "dirty" part of the track, to accumulate gravel to add to the weight of the F1 car. 

Ugh.. rev limit is 18000 this season just so you know.  But dude please, just listen to me on this one i know what im talking about, the cars DO NOT collect dirt and gravel before a race on purpose, this would not help them off the launch this would infact hurt them, all f1 cars do on the warm-up lap is do skids to warm the tyres, mostly the rears

Yes, and when they skid around, do they not go into the "dirty" parts of the track and pick up gravel at the same time? 

During the mid-90s the technique for warming up was do short burst accelerations and strong decelerations on straight paths, avoiding escaping the optimal racing line. Even in some 2000 championships, this technique was still used. Nowadays, they just use the swaying technique.

I concede that I may be wrong in the aspect of picking up dirt on purpose, but they do pick it. They could change to a more efficient heating technique to avoid that, to have clean hot rubber for the optimal grip.

Anyway, we can be here arguing all night long. My original argument with waron and his claim that following an optimal line is not real life was BS still stands because that's exaclty what any racing pilot do. 

Just so you know both of you are partially wrong anyway when it comes to F1.  It doesn't matter where they drive on the track on the warmup lap as all the track is dirty due to the fact there has been no F1 rubber laid down since qualifying and since then there have been numerous support races.  That is why they often light the wheels up just before pulling into their grid slot, it cleans the rear tyres up and of course adds a last extra temperature boost too.

Waron isn't incorrect when it comes to racing lines either necessarily, especially in F1.  Every driver in F1 has a slightly different style, some brake late carry more speed into the corner and then fight for a exit, some brake to a lower apex speed but ensure good traction through the corner, some drivers naturally balance their car to run with more oversteer than others.  That is just a few aspects but all of these differences cause drivers to take different lines through a corner, thats not to mention how much setup changes the optimal way to take a corner.  Perhaps what Waron should have claimed is that different cars would have very different optimal paths through corners, personally I didn't give the AI too much thought as I figured it is unlikely to be the final build quality for the AI anyway.